Completely agree. 99%+ of what we call “strains” wouldn’t be recognized under legal definitions. Even still, if you don’t sell the seeds you made, then legally, there’s even less ground to stand on.
IMO if you sell seeds, you should first accept that a “gentlemen’s agreement” is about the only protection you’re going to get. If you don’t like those terms, you should probably find another business to operate in, because there’s really not much else protecting your business.
That said, to me subcool always came off as very protective of his stuff. I’d personally just as soon respect his wishes and let him take it to the grave.
Guys cross a male to 50 cuts and call each one a proprietary “strain”. You’re right, if you give me something and I explicitly agree to certain terms, then I’m the asshole for breaking my word. However, I have never promised anyone anything, ever, when receiving cuts and beans. It’s just something I’d never agree to in the first place on principal.
If nothing else, I think Sub would want Space Queen preserved. Is Vic High still around?
For a while, the only thing Sub ever did was cross stuff to his “space dude” male. It’s sorta his legacy more than anything else, IMO.
This is just my opinion, but I don’t know that a seed preservation run would qualify as, “breeding” necessarily. When you’re only talking about 5 seeds, I think the selection process becomes moot The goal, IMO, is to get at least one male and one female, and make fresh seeds.
Space Queen is a great choice for a preservation run too. I have 5 of Sub’s strains, and 4 of them have Space Dude in them.
Man, I’ll tell ya @anon81143130, I’ve got some Jack Herer in my flowering tent that still need about 5-6 weeks, and once she’s done, I don’t have anything else to go into that tent, everything I have on deck is going outside, so if you want to donate those SQ seeds, I’ll do a preservation run on 'em.
Hell, I’ve even got a barrel of SuperSoil outside on the deck.
That’s kinda my thought too. To me, he always came across as a spokesman for the plant, and what it could do for you beyond get you stoned.
That’s really the question, but I don’t know how you’d find that information short of seeing the legal documents filed in creating his foundation, or whatever it is.
Great discussion. Thanks for all the replies, I think I can see a Vortex run in the future.
I would say email a seed bank that has dealt with his gear in the past see if there is a possibility of a reorder for them
If for a 1 in a million chance I ever become a seed retailer let it be known I have 5 kids and they all like money but if none carry the torch than spread it far and wide
Yeah he sure did love him some space queen, pretty much the backbone to lots of his best strains. Tell you what…pm me and I’ll send them to you and if you feel like it after you make seeds send me a few back. If not no biggie I’ll send anyway.
With that type of expression, you have just proved, to me, you’re a stone, cold, OG OG’er!!! Top Shelf Dude, for sure. Definition of what’s it all about. Be well, Bro.
Back in the day we used to share seeds all the time. We used to wrap cones in a wet paper towel shove them some ziplock bags and ship. Funny thing is most of them would root unless they got hung up in the mail.
There are some hemp PVPs pending. PVP is so cool, because you explicitly can both (1) out cross with it to create new varieties and (2) inbreed It for farmer-saved seed that isn’t sold commercially.
Thought I saw a something about sub being a less than ethical douche somewhere, but could be wrong stoned memory. I see on mz.jill’s insta and fb says she runs tgasubcool and she has all the pics of supposedly her stuff being run but nothing is available at least on any of her sites
Personally I would frown on people interfering with someone’s work & income, speaking generally. Since he’s passed that seems somewhat impossible unless his kid/etc are dependent upon his estate & how that relates to TGA.
Without direct info from Badger & TGA Will it seems discourteous to Sub’s memory to move to heavily into preservation runs.
(I wrote this without reading the 35 earlier replies so let’s see if I need to edit this. )
I don’t think you need to edit it man. You’re right of course, the original SQ was from Vic and BCGA, it’s become associated with Sub to such a degree, I forget about that.
But ether way it’s discontinued right, so it should be OK to run?
Back in the early days of Overgrow, I never hesitated to purchase and grow many of the then available so called knock-off f2s. Joey Weed and Nirvana being the most notable purveyors
The only “strain” that I preferred to the originals was Serious Seeds AK-47.
All of the others were equally good, or better, in my experience.
IMO once the seed is sold by any” breeder” the buyer is free to do as he wishes.
I have been hoping for some time that with the advent of legalization the cannabis seed market would enjoy the emergence of truly professional breeders, such as those in the non cannabis seed market.
Check out Genefinderog on IG he does huge selections in greenhouses. I can’t wait until big companies can be doing multi-thousand plant selections. We may get outdoor plants with nearly indoor quality that do big yields harvesting before September once we get ag programs with 5 acre test fields. Who knows in 15 years we could be growing “University of Iowa Early Broadleaf” and buy them in Burpee packets.
I like my indoor breeding projects but no way us amateur breeders can ever hope to achieve that kind of input.
I have made a number of crosses using subcool’s strains while he was alive, for my own personal use. I plan to continue doing that and perhaps sharing seeds, if I find anything really exceptional.
It is my understanding that subcool had legal documents prepared before his death to establish ownership of his strains and had specific plans to keep his business going after his death. Perhaps his getting busted and shutting down will block his plans from fruition. However, if it does happen, I would personally not want to be involved in undercutting the people subcool designated to continue his legacy.
I’m all for creating NEW strains using subcool’s work as parents, but not creating F2s. Will F2s created from a five or ten pack really do justice to the original strain? I have not found this to be the case.
I have seeds for 29 of his strains and look forward to pheno hunting them over the next few years.
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You’re right of course, the original SQ was from Vic and BCGA, it’s become associated with Sub to such a degree, I forget about that.