How’d that happen? Did you forget to fully zip up the tent or something? Forget to turn off the overhead light in your grow area? Just curious. And also, so I make sure to tighten all my shit up haha.
The coco one looks sooooo much better. I love her… haha. Gonna be cool to read the differences between the two once you blaze her.
Yeah, everything pretty much looks better in coco from what I can tell. I’m sold on it for now.
Less volume of media
Plants last longer into flowering before decay sets in. Plants are happier in smaller pots with soluble feed as well
No gnats so far… They popped up briefly in the veg area and were very easy to deal with (compared to soil).
Very easy to water / re-hydrate
Smells stronger than soil plants usually do - not a surprise to me here as I have grown in hydro in the past.
Something like that. I have a tent inside a small closet and I accidentally forgot to close the door. Hallway light spilled into grow room.
I’m seriously considering converting, at least for a run or two.
It’s really nice to be able to grow a good sized plant in one or two gallons of media. Also seems like less overall labor… I don’t know about you, but lugging around all that dirt and adding back stuff to it, then putting in back in the SIPs… it has been a real chore for me. I like the easy setup and easy break down of coco… when I’m done I let the pots dry out and then break everything up and put in the garden.
Agree with you on all these points… though I’ve had equally strong smelling stuff in organics, maybe stronger even. It’s hard to really judge without having the living plants, side by side. The no gnats thing is really nice too, though Gnatrol works pretty well for me, I have remember to use it initially.
Are you still running Jack’s 321, the whole way through the run? How many times are you watering each day? Setting up an automated system?
Plants look really great, photos are awesome as always!
Ya if you already have all the supplies why not? Can always easily go back to soil. Biggest hurdle for me seemed to be getting the PH meter, PH down, and stir plate.
I’m really happy with how my plants are doing, especially in that area. My jaw dropped when I saw that shot you posted in your thread yesterday haha. Pulling something like that off in soil seems unattainable (unless you’re using salts, and then what’s the point?).
Have you noticed a quality difference in the smoke? As far as smells go it seems like coco is winning there for me but agree with you that some ridiculously loud flower can come from organics as well. Not a big surprise in my case because the plants are healthier.
Yeah, lately I’ve been mixing up 15g of part A / 3.5g Epsom salt and 10g of part B into a 5 GAL bucket with 4 GAL of water (standard 3-2-1 recipe). Part B dissolves so fast that it’s pretty seamless after A / Epsom Salts have been mixing for an hour or so.
I just blindly add 5cc of PH down and then I’m good (tested anyways but it always came out perfect when doing this)… Enough solution to water seedlings, mothers, backup clones, and the flowering stuff.
Lately I’ve been watering the flowering stuff maybe once every 3 or 4 days. Earlier on it was once a day.
I’d love to do an automated system but honestly I just don’t think I can pull it off in my grow area. I abandoned the drip platform idea because I lose too much valuable vertical space. I just have the plants sitting in containers and am watering to runoff. I’ll continue doing that in the future since it seems to be doing OK this run.
Thanks! Appreciate the input from earlier about the Jacks fertilizer - I really like their product from a minimalist perspective. See no reason to start trying other stuff - will order the bigger bags when I run out soon…
Yeah, after dealing with the current grow and watching syzygy et al, I have been, too. Except for this:
Haha.
There’s a lot of other reasons, but that right there just sounds like too much work. Or more thought than I’m willing to put into my grows, anyway. Plus I’m fucking broke; it’s not something I could consider switching over to right now even if I wanted to.
That’s another thing that bothers me about it, is just that you’re constantly trashing stuff.
But we’ve had this conversation before… haha.
It is kinda crazy how different the 5150 etc plants grown in coco look compared to the soil plants, though. The differences between the coco-grown one and the soil-grown one are pretty striking. They don’t even look like the same plant.
I was thinking that also, but then I compared my cut of Space monkey in soil side by side in 2 gal vs 5 gal, pretty striking also 
Which is which? Haha.
I flower in seven-gallon airpots most of them time, occasionally I’ll use five-gallons. syzygy likes the really small pots, though, so using salts makes the most sense in those, I think. Other than being broke, the main reason I don’t wanna switch is because if I did, I’d have to read a bunch of stuff and learn a whole new way to grow. And I don’t feel like learnin’ new stuff haha.
It could all be in my head, but I’ve always felt that soil/organic stuff just burned smoother and tasted better. As I’ve grown more plants, and really, as I’ve dried more plants, i think the moisture content of the flower has more to do with the smoothness and taste. I’ve tried some really great salt grown flower, as well as really great organic soil grown stuff… I think there’s so many variables at play there, it more comes down to the skill of the grower and the cultivar, rather than the method.
Pretty much what I’ve been doing, I run 5 gallon rez with airstones going all the time, and a pump on a timer in the bottom to occasionally mix the tank. I use a paint mixer attached to a drill to mix everything initially, and end up with a little sediment. So far so good over here with dropping the Epsom salt, I’ve been feeding the mothers the same mix as the flowering plants and they are not showing any deficiencies yet.
Once you get the routine down, it’s really easy. Just like following a recipe when you’re cooking something, you do it enough times and you don’t have to follow the recipe anymore, you just kind of know what to do. Luckily, when I mix up everything, my pH comes out at 5.3ish and gradually rises, so i rarely have to bother checking pH (though it’s good to initially check). It’s definitely cheaper to grow using salts, i think… I can buy a 25# bag of Part A for $90 and 25# bag of Part B for $50… I could grow hundreds of plants for $140. But… I get the financial limitation, and it’s best to just use what you already have and the method you’re most comfortable with. I’m not trying to convince you to switch, just offering my perspective.
I do have qualms about the single use stuff… the coco is cheap enough and environmentally friendly enough that i don’t mind just putting it in the dirt, though I don’t exactly know how sustainable harvesting coco coir is, I imagine it’s about as sustainable as harvesting peat though, maybe even more sustainable. Also, i don’t like dumping the nutrient run-off down the drain, so I vacuum it up and use it to water the plants outside… they’re a lot more forgiving when it comes to pH and salts…
I’m surprised you can get away with watering so little late in flower, mine would be bone dry after 24 hours. You may want to look into high frequency fertigation with coco, if you haven’t already… Basically when coco starts drying out, the EC of the medium will rise, which you can use to your advantage (EC Stacking), but also, it can be obviously detrimental to the plant’s health if it gets too high and locks out stuff. If you make sure the pots have 10-20% run off each time you water (consistent saturation), you don’t have to worry about over fertilizing, you’re constantly flushing out the older stuff and it’s being replaced with new stuff… anyways, you may already know this, but here’s basically what I’m referring to, https://www.cocoforcannabis.com/principles-fertigation-feed-water-cannabis-coco/ - plus there’s a bunch of youtube stuff on EC stacking, etc…
Yeah, if you can’t keep the rez in the same area as the plants, it makes it difficult. I’m going to setup a system based on this guide, as I have most of the parts already, https://www.cocoforcannabis.com/diy-automatic-watering-system/
Organic amendments take up a lot of space, can have limited shelf life depending on how they are stored, and aren’t cheap either. Can store everything in 5 GAL buckets with lids but that still takes up a ton of space. Not sure how it is around everyone else but here peat moss has gone up a lot in the past few years. To my mind organic systems really shine outdoors, and to a lesser extent in greenhouse/hoophouses.
I don’t think I’ll be growing Cannabis organically outdoors either for the foreseeable future at home. I had to stop topdressing my plants because the puppy kept getting into it and then throwing up inside. With that, the bugs, and the bird crap all over them I’m not really that interested. I think growing males outside would make sense but I have no plans on making any seeds in the years to come either.
I get measuring a feed solution every watering being a headache and can see how that is a deal breaker. With a good organic grow you just need to mix everything up before hand and then water until harvest - simple. For me the annoyance of mixing the soil and amendments is a bigger inconvenience. I realize everyone’s situation is different though. I agree with IAY that once you get into a rhythm with it then it’s no longer a big deal. I am positive jacks + coco is substantially cheaper than a typical amended soil grow that isn’t recycled ( I don’t recycle 1 GAL pots indoors ).
I was thinking about buying a mixer drill attachment a while ago, cool to hear that it’s working for you. I’m loving how well the stir plate mixes things. Afterwords I just mix with a 2’ piece of 1" pvc pipe in the bucket when all is done. My PH comes out to about 6.5 when all is said and done and then 5cc of PH down in a syringe brings it to 5.8 to 5.9~.
Curious about why you’re dropping the epsom salts? I’m going to finish this run following their feed schedule to the T before I do any tweaking, but am still interested.
That was kind of why I wanted to do that drain table. I’m basically just growing these like I do my soil grows with minimal runoff.
The automatic watering stuff looks really cool for sure. I know if I set something like that up I’d screw it up when moving plants around or taking them out of the tent though so it’s probably for the best that I can’t do it anyways haha.
I agree on a consumer level that if you’re buying amendments from places like Build A Soil or Amazon then it seems way cheaper to use salts.
If you can follow the instructions for mixing soil you can follow the instructions for mixing salts into water - neither are rocket science. I get you on the money front though, especially since what you’re doing is already working for you.
What did your pheno smell like? Did you encounter any that smelled like christmas (pine) trees?
Ya I know, there are some other differences at play too though. The 1 GAL soil plant was the mother that the coco plant came from. There are multiple tops on it and it’s rootbound. The coco plant is just single stemmed and was flipped very early.
More of the 5150 TK 1 soil
TS
What’re those last two pics? Cotton?
Probably. I only buy a three-cubic-feet bag of peat once every four years, though, so I don’t feel too bad about using it to grow in haha. I still have a bunch left over from the last time I mixed up some soil, whenever that was.
Right, I understand. It’s more just the fact that you have to mix shit up all the time in coco. If I decided I wasn’t really feeling like doing that one night, the plants would probably get all gnarly-looking, whereas in soil, it’s mostly just a,”Oh yeah! That’s right! I’ve got some aloe! Maybe I’ll add that to my water…” thing. Or fulvic acid or TM7 or SEA-90 or whatever. I mean, I’ve had the same bag of TM7 and SEA-90 for like ten years haha, ya know? And it’s not like I bought the big bags of either of those things haha.
Anyway…
Yeah for sure. Sometimes when I see the plants are on the verge of of wilting I start cursing myself because I know at the bare minimum I have to PH the tap water. I get it… I’m not, and never have been into pushing any grow style - to me they’re all cool and people should do whatever meshes best with their personality and grow area. Seed oils on the other hand…
From my (limited) understanding, the 5-12-26 already has enough Mg in it, so if you bump up the ratio to 4:2 you can drop the epsom(Mg) which over time can leave your Mg levels too high, antagonizing uptake of other nutes. Meangene’s cousin can probably explain it better than me, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7nU3r0y3kk
yeah, this part blows.
I know, right? Seed oils… Mother. Fucking. Seed oils…
Haha, dude, for real, who is this guy? Just like another online grow person? The name doesn’t ring a bell. Is he a breeder or an online tutorial person or…?
yeah more of that, he’s been testing different LEDs and nerding out over nutrients and stuff on youtube for a good while. some of it is over my head, but I pick up what i can here and there.
Oh, that’s cool. If I wasn’t so committed to the Apache Brand haha already, I’d probably check out those videos.
I dunno if I ever mentioned it, but some guy named tags420 did a little side-by-side with the Apaches and some other LED light like twelve years ago on thcfarmer. That thread plus him answering a bunch of questions for me via DM were what convinced me to get the first light.
Dude! I was about to post the link to that thread in case you wanted to read it, searched for it just now. Greengenes IS tags420! That’s funny. I guess he changed his name. Anyway, yeah, that’s the dude who convinced me to get an Apache.
haha
Forgot to answer this but ya it’s cotton. Just in a small pot and picture taken after a rain this morning so the cotton part of it was a bit wet.
Sweet pictures. And you’re growing cotton now? Haha.
You’ll have to wait until the one-minute mark for the joke to reveal itself, but it’s worth it haha.
Well I will have to harvest it if I want to process it! This is where you’re going with it, right?
3:28 in case the timestamp link doesn’t work.
I actually wasn’t working towards the “seed oil” joke, but that’s funny as shit, really made me audibly chuckle when I watched that.
Anytime anybody mentions cotton, all I can think of is the Ghost World/Blueshammer/“Yes I’ve been PLLLOOOWWWWIINNGGG, pickin’ cotton all day long,” thing.
But that video you posted is funny, too. And I don’t give a shit what’s in it, I like mayonnaise on my turkey sandwiches haha.
So great points when comparing organics and synthetics… im from the organic school of though, and yeah mixing soil is a bit of work, and you do need some space to store the stuff, but to be honest u only really need 5 or 6 ingredients beside the base mix…
A worm bin is def a big plus and almost essential if you trying to go living soil option… however it does provide you with a good ammount of soil, ive harvested 15 gallons of fresh castings last year… which is pretty much all you need to recycle soil…
Recycling 1 gallons are easy. Throw a few of the 1 gallons into a rubbermaid, add some castings, lime, neem and malted barley and you good to go… running small containers with organics is def a bit trickiers and its necessary to stay active with the top dressings…
I dont have much comparison regarding the final product, as i only smoke what i grow 99% of the time…
I find it simpler in the long run, especially with my setup where i bottom water it, it literally takes me 30 seconds to water 20 plants in a 2x4 
To each their own, do what works best for you, being organics, dwc, coco etc
