I kind of miss his rants on certain subjects! 
2 Likes
Hopefully he comes back one day. 
3 Likes
He’s on Instagram as @notill_hippie
4 Likes
yeah i recently told him theres lots of notillers now who could benefit from his knowledge, hopefully he’ll come back around
2 Likes
npk raw sells a good powdered yucca for making water wetter!
5 Likes
does it just make the soil retain water longer? it can’t actually make water wetter can it? now i want to feel it…
would this stuff be beneficial in coco or is it just for soil organics?
4 Likes
It has a the ability to break the hydrophobic characteristics of peat/spaghnum in soils that contain them at also helps with IPM pesticides that help with spreading the sprayed solution which acts also as a surfactant my guess is it would benefit coco subtrates as well!
7 Likes
Goggling around, details behind the “why is it wetter”?
Wetting agents (aka spreaders, surfactants) act to modify the surface tension between a substrate and a liquid. This, for instance, could act on the surface tension between a leaf (substrate) and water (the liquid).
Water has very high surface tension. While, a waxy coating has a low surface energy (surface energy in the case of solids). Placing a high surface tension liquid onto a low surface energy solid will cause the liquid to “bead” up. Conversely, placing a low surface tension liquid onto a high surface energy solid will cause the liquid to spread out into a thin layer.
The “beading” of the liquid is what one may want to avoid. Because of the high surface tension of water, many surfaces will act to repel the water. The difference in the surface energy and surface tension basically acts as a water repellent.
Now for some details, a surfactant is a term derived from the phrase “surface active agent”. It consists of molecules that have a water-loving (hydrophilic) and oil loving (lipophilic/hydrophobic) groups bonded together.
When the surfactant is dispersed in water, the water-loving ends are attracted to the water molecules forming what is known as micelles.
Another illustration, in this case an emulsion:
4
When the solution containing the micelles is placed onto a surface, the lipophillic/hydrophobic ends are attracted to that surface. This has the effect of spreading the liquid out since the micelles are attracted to both the water and the surface. This is the idea of making water “wetter” in that more of the surface will essentially become “wet”:
Modern soap, for instance is a surfactant. But, it’s an anionic surfactant (positive charged hydrophillic/lipophillic portion) and is not generally suitable for use in horticulture. Anionic surfactants include sulfonates, sulfates, ether sulfates and carboxylates. A common example is ammonium laureth sulfate (it’s in your shampoo).
Hair conditioners, for instance, may also be surfactants. They are cationic (negative charged hydrophillic/lipophillic portion) and in many cases are also biocidal (sanitizers, disinfectants). These are also not generally used for horticulture application.
For this application, you’d want a nonionic surfacant. They include alcohol alkoxylates, alkylphenol ethoxylates, fatty acid amides, fatty acid esters and alkyl glucosides, tweens (polysorbates), organosiloxanes, etc. Some of which would be suitable for horticulture.
Nonionic Surfactants do not have a charge in solution and are the most commonly used surfactants for the horticulture industry. When used properly, they as a class do not harm plants, remain stable, and do a good job of breaking water surface tension. However, application rate is critical. When applied at too high a rate plant injury may result. 3
Saponin surfactants are nonionic and are derived from plants such as yucca and quillaja. There are quite a few non-organic surfactants avaliable as well which tend to have a higher strength.
The aloe vera plant also contains saponin. So does soapwort, soapbark, etc. (and, get this, hemp leaves apparently). Saponin_based_surfactants.pdf (585.2 KB)
In addition to the saponin, powders/extract of these plants will likely contain salicylic acid, amino acids, and so forth. Salicylic acid is known to have a biological effect on plants. Whether that is useful or not, is up to you.
Harley, our friendly reference, has some things to say on this:
YUCCA: A Gardening Secret from the Desert
Disclamier: Harley (NPK) wants to sell you stuff but most of what he says seems to be grounded. Besides that, there are plenty of other sources for Yucca around, too.
In any case, be sure to understand what you are buying as there are formulations that may or may not contain the extracts or concentrations that you are expecting or there may be additional adjuncts added not intended for horticulture. Dosage would be an important consideration, as well.
As @Tinytuttle notes, this would allow better wetting of anything that is hydrophobic or has been coated with an organic material rendering it hydrophobic within the soil (why it is sometimes hard to water dry soil). I’ve seen some comments that the used of surfactants in feed water could increase the rate that water migrates down and away from the root zone (for better or worse), as well. This might be good for ensuring the subtrate is fully wetted while also decreasing the possibility of keeping the roots over wet.
15 Likes
Wow thanks @Northern_Loki for that information that’s great learned something as well! Bookmarking that useful info! Thanks for posting to my thread!
2 Likes
it is cool to watch when applied on dry soil that is usually hydrophobic. you can also take a few potted plants and time how long it takes you to add X amount of water. add the wetting agent and time it again. It will be faster. like @Northern_Loki said (for better or worse) Your medium composition is what will determine the speed. So Dryer harder type soils will show a greater effect.
5 Likes
So does yucca powder actually dissolve or is it suspended in water if added that way? B.a.s recommends adding to soil at 1 cup per yard anybody try that method ? … which leads me to believe it dissolve readily!
2 Likes
That’s a good question. Different processing and extraction methods will lead to different amount of soluble content but, most certainly, the saponin component would be soluble in water.
Let’s try it.
The Yucca extract:
Quantity (did not weight it, just some random amount):
Results in some distilled water (stir, stir, stir):
And,
This vendors extract looks like it fully dissolves.
5 Likes
Di you have a preferred vendor you go with ?
2 Likes
No preferred vendor. The stuff I have came from kelp4less. @Viva_Mexico mentions the RAW brand from NPK which will be good stuff, too.
You do not need a large quantity in most instances, a very small amount goes a long way, and you don’t need to apply it every feeding for soil.
4 Likes
Looks like ya have 50 years of material there! Lol
2 Likes
Haha, yea. I might try it on everything including when I wash the car. Your lawn soil idea has me intrigued.
2 Likes
If it’s sandy would help tremendously clay however might be another story!
2 Likes
I make my own yucca extract, I’m literally surrounded by the stuff.
4 Likes
I chopped some leaves and boiled for 20 minutes seems to foam a bit but I didn’t get much root … do the leaves contain it as well @ReikoX?
3 Likes
Yes, but it’s mostly in the root. I did two different things. First I tried fermenting the whole plant with Lactic Acid Bacteria (LAB). I chopped up the whole thing from leaves to root and added water, molasses and LAB culture. After a week or two I strained it and bottled it. I use it at about 10ml per gallon with great results.
The other thing I did, which was easier, was I took the root and skinned it. Then I chopped that up into little pieces and let it dehydrate. After they were dry, I powdered them in an old coffee grinder and sieve it through a 120 micron screen. This works pretty good too, but does dissolve completely. But the particles are small and don’t clog my sprayer.
6 Likes