What is the genetic difference between breeding with reversed individuals versus natural hermaphrodites?

[NightRider]

There is a fundamentally often missed difference between the two types of femanized technique.

1- a hermy or hermaphrodite will likely produce hermy seeds which grow into hermy plants.,even if the plant the hermy pollen pollinates is 100% female this is still hermy pollen and some seeds will produce hermies plants…especially if the plant producing seeds or pollen has not been stress tested.lights leaks etc.

2- INTERSEX IS THE TYPE OF BREEDING you need to be doing to get femanized seeds without hermies. you still need to light proof your tent/setup etc but intersex in forcing a female plant which has little hermy traits if any, then use something like STS to spray with every 5 days, not too strong not too light solution…Now seeing the female has beeen sprayed and is a stable female being forced to produce pollen it will pollintate its own buds on the sprayed bud and other parts of the plant not sprayed with STS.

The buds can not be smoked but female/intersex pollen is now pollinating a female plant and any other plants in the room.
Personally i like to breed for stature and potency. such as a northern lights stature i like with an og 18 potency i like and try to get some seeds resulting in a full scrog setup out of those seeds.

You can alwayss improve on yeild you can not always improve on potency.

Anyway it is intersex pollination you are after in femanized seeds not hermaphrodite polination.

[Cannalchemist40]

I’m not understanding what the spray is for I feminized my seeds by stressing the plant into popping a few bananas and used them to to pollinatethat same plant and a few others by quickly harvesting the bananas before they were able to pollinate the whole plant and I used a clear plastic bag and put them in there and then put the it over only the bottom buds that were small. The buds that were pollinated had about 3 to 6seeds each and out of the 12 plants I’ve harvested in total.and any seedlings I’ve gotten rid of I’ve only had one make plant from my first grow. And I haven’t had any hermes pop up from the seeds I made the first and second grow. They all have popped femake plants and only pop bananas when I forced stress them to cause I like to harvest the pollen for saving the genetics and feminizing and crossing new strains. But I don’t pollinate any plants that have already been feminized that way. Ive read a lot of breeders do it that way and even those that sell their seeds online through a lot of the most popular seed banks. I was reading that’s how Brothers Grimm does their feminized strains. Using hermie pollen I think. I was researching a few different breeders techniques for feminizing strains and so I don’t want you to quote me on that. But I’m 75%vsure that’s who It was. But I was real surprised at a one strain I have because out of the 4seeds I planted the plants that grew all looked identical mostly accept one was darker green that the others. It’s some kind of kush I think. But the nugs were loaded with trichs. One plant I think had buds with hash tips [

I’m no expert, just a beginner and learning so if I say something that’s not correct or wrong please correct me. Id rather be told right then to keep on thinking and doing the wrong way.

[NightRider]

Cannalchemist40

Well hermies will produce a lot of females if crossed with another female as the female chromosome- x and male- y which a hermie is xy…so therefore = xy crossed with xx or true female, will result in xxyx so some hermies will come. but a lot of females.
Intersex as far as i have studied and experienced is better than using a hermy that grew up as a hermy instead of a spray like silver thiosulfate solution on a true female to produce pollen.
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Selfing a plant according to some will result in more of the same genes which means more of the same phenotypes/very similar plants from the same batch.

However since there are so many landraces to start off with that go into all the strains we have today, many seedlings from many strains will result in different phenotypes…its all genes… some strains, all seedlings look similar while some other strains all resulting children have different results and different phenotypes…hybrids containing sativas and indicas and possibly ruderalis too will often have different phenotypes in the outcome…

Some believe f1’s or the first batch of seedlings from a cross will result in more equal phenotypes and f2’s the second inbred seeds from crossing two f1’s will result in more different phenotypes…the more the strain is inbred further down the line many would think the strain will become more equal in characteristics/phenotypes and genotypes.

Some say cubing which is back crossing an f1 or f2 or even f5 back to a potent parent or grandparent many times over will further equalize the characteristics of the seeds and product.

On the other hand some say cubing is a myth…

To me, i dont really know what to believe, in cannabis there are so many original landraces from sativas, indicas and hemp/rueralis involved in popular strains that it can take a while before you find a strain with all similar phenotypes in the seeds.

With plants like chillis it is easy to stabilize a strain such as ghost habenero and create seeds that the product look just like the parents but with cannabis it is more of a mystery since so many original strains go into todays strains and so many differing beliefs and opinions and experiences saying what makes seedlings stable and similar phenotypes and genotypes.

It is likely your strain was a pure indica at a wild guess and many pure indicas or pure sativas are pure and often produce offspring with similar genes and characteristics.to eachother and the parents.

However there are many hybrids i have found such as white rhino or chemdawg where its hard to tell the difference between each offspring.
Og kush on the other hand is a great hybrid however its hard to find anything similar in phenotypes of seeds produced even from seed banks…they all might be great in their way and suit someone different but to me it is hard to find strains especially hybrids that each seed produces the same phenotype and genotype…

Hope that didnt confuse you…we are all together trying to work cannabis genetics out so dont worry, some who have grown for decades like me get confused about cannabis genetics…feel free to ask anything if we can help we will try.

[Cannalchemist40]

So the way I’ve done it isn’t good. I did it by accident and the plants that came from it were very nice. I actually couldn’t believe how good the bud was. I get dispensary bud a lot and it’s never as good as what I grew where I live is not ideal because of the laws so I only grow every so often like 1time a yr or 2. I freaking love growing I can’t move right now and it’s driving me crazy cause I’m really good at growing I think, especially since the only help I had was from Google. And I used seeds I had no idea what most of them were and only one strain I really knew that it was in fact the strain I was told. I had to grow the 3otyers to make sure. All bag seeds as jd people in Texas will just call it whatever sounds coolest. But I want to get a job in the industry cause I want to learn. I’m gonna bred a strain that wins cannabis cup one day and I can do that faster if I have a teacher. I’d love to learn from the Canadians or the growers out in Oregon. They got the best over in that region of the US with the emarld circle Oregon washington. And theBC area the bud is soft like cotton candy amd seems like it’s not dry or looks like it but it is and it gets rwal hard if you squeeze it. It also has distinguishable characteristics. The bud in dispensaries doesn’t always smoke like the characteristics that the strain carries and is supposed to it’s a always no real taste or smell that you would associate with it. I bought Maui Waui from the cannabis depot in Pueblo Colorado and it was a dark color it was nice sized buds. But it had very little smell and was harsh tasting for a top shelf and I got 30 something seeds in the bag as ND so I grew 1and it was bright and call link rful with a very strong mouth watering pineapple smell. And it got me blazed and strongly tasted like pineapples. Here’s a couple Pics

[NightRider]

@Cannalchemist40

So the way I’ve done it isn’t good.

Not exactly what i meant that hermies produce bad weed just if breeding,hermies should be avoided for as long as possible and stress tested as much as possible before going into breeding stock.

Breeding stock that gets sprayed with STS (or some other chem i cant think of that i avoid personally- usually because hard to find high % content in a bottle) after the plants have tested true females and not throwing bananas at any stress test for as long as possible- are often the ones to keep to lower hermies % in offspring…Or so it it appears.
As long as you like the produce and taste and everything you want its a keeper in my eyes…I Would just be careful with clones down the line throwing bananas…sometimes that will not happen untill like week 9 or 10…i kept one going for years that always threw nanas in last two weeks but never any seeds or even tiny undeveloped seeds…nothing…pollen shooting duds…

@Cannalchemist40

Maui Waui from the cannabis depot in Pueblo Colorado and it was a dark color it was nice sized buds. But it had very little smell and was harsh tasting for a top shelf and I got 30 something seeds in the bag as ND so I grew 1and it was bright and call link rful with a very strong mouth watering pineapple smell. And it got me blazed and strongly tasted like pineapples. Here’s a couple Pics

Those buds and photos are excellent you have the gift of a true green thumb it seems.I heard great things about Maui Waui lucky you liviing in a country with decent laws on medical products that in some states and countries some dumb laws people go to jail for…

I dont know what to say about choosing strains…i havent been to dispensaries here but heard from USA folk they avoid them for many reasons such as spider mites etc also false claims.

If i started all over again i would find a potent mother with decent flavor, try a few strains but personally i would avoid the bubblegums etc…No potency to me…Flavour is not important to me but it may be to you so that pineapple maui might be one to stick with for years.
I would rather have potency personally and secondly ok yeild, third- stature for whatever my setup needs…I found two strains i will stick with from now on.
Chemdawg 4 and white rhino…Tried many, some were good some were not but those two were to my friends and myself excellent ,so personally i got sick of pollen chucking and pheno hunting and having disappointed friends weekends ruined because my buds were duds.

Anyway good luck to you you have a gift… set a goal make it happen…Wish you welll have fun.

.

[rasterman]

It’s nice to smell the bubble gums, etc., but I’m like you - it’s not the smell that matters to me either. One exception: I grew a Purple Canyon this summer that had an awesome, overpowering smell of axle grease. Somehow that novelty smell matters but it was a fire pheno also. My cloning station was in flux and I lost the clone. So I’m growing out the rest of the seeds and some crosses I made with that pheno to try to get it back. But if it wasn’t great smoke the smell wouldn’t be relevant.

[sfzombie13]

@funkyfunk

were it seems possible to reverse males too

this makes me question the ‘clone only’ varieties. can they not be reversed and made to produce seeds? if so, why not?

[HamTheMeatMan]

Intersex, trans and autosexual are not the same.

True Intersex is a hybrid male-female organ. Pollen sacks with hairs.

Trans: Grows soft round pollen pumpkin sacks on females.

Autosexual: Long hard banana boners

Very distinct.

[rasterman]

Clones usually can be selfed. But after selfing it, pheno-hunting and additional breeding would be needed to stabilize it, unless you just want to grow out the offspring and don’t care about an occasional dud.

[sfzombie13]

so basically i was correct in thinking that ‘clone only’ is bullshit since it can be reproduced and grown from seeds. that is what i was wondering. thanx.

[HolyAngel]

It’s not really bullshit though. You’re not gonna find TK or any other clone only cut in her S1’s. Can find stuff close, different, but not the same thing with all the same smells and everything.

[Cormoran]

A heterozygous female with no males of the line is clone-only. You can reverse it to make S1 fems, but they aren’t the same. Not exactly, on a genetic level - some of them come close, I guess, but they’re not clones.

[sfzombie13]

so it must be a terminology thing then. when i hear the term ‘clone only’ i think that it can’t be reproduced or continued from seed. if i can reverse it and get seeds out of it, it isn’t ‘clone only’, even though you may or may not be able to get the exact genetics from an offspring. chance says that you can, even though it may take a while, unless i am misunderstanding the XXxx of genetics which is also possible.

[Cormoran]

Pretty much just terminology, yep. GG4 is a good example. It’s a clone-only, but then you have @Tonygreen’s RIL which is pretty much GG4 in seed form. It’s not technically the same, I expect, but probably as close as it’s gonna get without doing PCR tests at every step or just direct gene editing. I’ve smoked both, and I can say they’re so close I can’t tell the difference. It’s not technically the same, that’s all, so GG4 is still clone-only. Kinda. 1/1000 of the seeds from the RIL or another recombinant breeding scheme would probably be exactly the same, though. Not really sure what to call it at that point, but most terminology is kinda fuzzy when you dig too deeply into it. I used to think I knew what an IBL was, and now I’m not so sure, for example…

[sfzombie13]

buncha potheads naming things when it’s illegal most places and you’ll have that i guess

[splinter7]

i am definitely not following the crew that says that the genes provided to the offspring of female plant(s) only are different depending on whether the pollen was developed as a result of stress vs. STS. plants changing their genes just doesn’t make sense.

[catapult]

@sfzombie13

so it must be a terminology thing

Clone only = one specific individual plant.

It’s clone only because the only real version is either the plant someone found/hunted for or it’s a clone of that specific plant

[Mithridate]

I’d add - the line which the cut came from is either extinct, unreleased or lost

[rasterman]

It’s clone-only because that pheno has only been reproduced once from seed. If it’s selfed, you might find it again but it might take a lot of grows to find it. I personally still find selfing a good way to reproduce, because I’d be willing to grow out plants that might not be great smoke in hopes of finding something close to the clone I started with.

A lot of clone-only strains have been worked so their offspring are more like the clone. I don’t know how close they get though. I typically don’t even try those seeds, at least not first!

[HolyAngel]

@splinter7

whether the pollen was developed as a result of stress vs. STS. plants changing their genes just doesn’t make sense

Stressed = hermaphrodites, naturally prone to producing male flowers

STS and unstressed = blocking female hormone in plant so it can only produce male flowers.

STS itself can be stressful to the plant tho so could also cause herms with no way to know which one is is which. Which is why it should only be used on plants that don’t herm regardless of stress.