Zephyr presents Big Trouble in Little China

[zephyr]

The 7 seeds from my pack are still in some kind of dormancy. they do not look like hybrid seeds that have failed to sprout. They are still vibrant and shiny, and have not decayed at all.

Hybrid seeds that fail to sprout often look pale, become soft, or simply compost. These are not like that at all. I am hoping they are still in some sort of dormancy. I will plant them all outside, in the hopes that being exposed to the natural conditions of spring will trigger them to sprout.

I still have some hope because no other cannabis seeds I have planted have lasted this long without visible degradation.

I am planning to set them all up in a three gallon pot with the seeds planted about 1 inch deep. this should prevent them from drying out and give them another shot at life without taking up too much resources or labor.

They will be monitored carefully, and any sprouts will be transplanted. If I get into a situation where they have grown together and cannot be separated, I will plant the whole shebang in a 5’ by 2’ raised garden bed, and train the plants apart.

[PlantShepherd]

Looking good man! Those leaves are looking pretty cool already. I can’t wait to see them when they are fully expanded. Love your seed description! Positive vibes you get enough viable plants to work with.

[zephyr]

It looks like one of mine has started to germ. I have been caring for these consistently, so it has had decent moisture levels. It still has a tiny bit of life in it. The sprout could not have been more than 2 days old, so these seeds may still have some life in them. The rest of the seeds were intact with no visible degradation.

it’s a longshot, but worth a shot given that the line comes from wild gathered mountain landrace stock.

[Dirtron]

Good on you for trying soooooo hard to give them every chance to live.

[zephyr]

The first 3 china cangshan are ready to move outside. These are quite vigorous.

Their leaves are particularly soft and tender, almost velvety. At this stage the fiber content is remarkably low. These are quite delicate. I hope that these are not too susceptible to munching and leaf sucking bugs, which will definitely be a factor in my outdoor conditions.

[zephyr]

some notes on the line and its origins-

They are not a typical narrowleaf se asian. To me they look more like a meeting point between broadleaf and narrowleaf. The origin and actual genetic content of this line is largely unknown. China has both broad and narrowleaf cannabis. Bodhi described the effect as having a push like se asian with the euphoria of a himalayan.

Dali and the Cangshan mountain are located along ancient the silk road trade routes, so there has been a deeply extensive history of cannabis cultivation and drug trading in that area. It is very likely that there were genetics introduced from other regions during this era. Dali is roughly equidistant between the himalayas and thailand, so it is certainly a trade and travel crossroads.

Dali was also a stop on the hippy trail in the 60s, so there is a modern history of cannabis cultivation and trade as well. Unlike other countries and stopping points along the hippy trail which became dangerous or impassable during the soviet expansion of the 1970s, dali was apparently safe and tourist friendly well into the 1980s. It is very likely that genetics were traded or introduced in the area at that time as well.

So in short, this is a landrace strain in the sense that it was gathered from a naturalized cannabis population on cangshan mountain. It is possible that this is a product of genetics from hundreds of years of cannabis trading constantly mixing with a dominant local landrace population.

I am hoping to learn a bit more from @bodhi on this, but he is so busy I am unlikely to hear from him on this. I’m very curious whether the seeds were from cultivated plants or wild jungli. Presumably they were cultivated.

I am trying to learn more about Cangshan mountain. It is sometimes referred to as “holy jade mountain” and there seems to be some level of traditional, mythological, or religious significance to the mountain.

That’s all that I know so far.

[zephyr]

The three seedlings have been transplanted.

Their root systems looked great, and very well developed.

They have each been planted outdoor into my biggest no till pots (I think they are hundred or hundred and twenty gallon pots) so I am hoping to see some trees this season. the cangshan will all be in 60 to 120 gallon pots. I have smaller no-till pots ranging from 5 to 30 which I will use for females from other lines to make hybrids.

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Zephyr presents Big Trouble in Little China

This afternoon I planted the remaining 6 cangshan seeds from @PlantShepherd 's pack. These are a nice diverse group of seeds. These cangshan seeds are quite unique, they are very sharply pointed, they are shallow with a very pronounced ridge along the line of bilateral symmetry, and their seed shell is remarkably shiny and water repellent. They were planted directly in moist potting soil with a sprinkling of worm castings at the surface.

I forgot to mention in this post that the seeds were given a quick hydrogen peroxide dunk to sterilize the hulls before planting.
Since then I have been misting the soil cups with water and diluted lactobacillus serum to maintain consistent moisture and establish good healthy soil activity.

[zephyr]

@PlantShepherd we have sprouts! Yesterday there were 2 sprouts and a third showing its stem at the soil line. The third sprouted before my eyes, I could actually see the motion as it lifted its cotyledons out of the soil. These seedlings are absolutely tiny. They sprouted yellow, but have greened up.

So we are already at 50%, hopefully we will see a few more sprouts come up in the next few days.

it took a lot of trial and error to finally find a set of conditions that allowed these to sprout.

I did not have this success last year when I planted 5 directly in soil without worm castings and lacto bacillus. The worm castings really made a difference. I have sometimes read to use compost to start himalayan strains, maybe this cangshan is similar in that respect.

[PlantShepherd]

Nice work Zephyr! And thanks for all the info on sprouting techniques for tough seeds. That’s something I need to up my game on. Now fingers crossed for a good male to female ratio.

[zephyr]

@PlantShepherd
And here’s a fourth! It is super pale, like a little ghost sprout. I think this is a good illustration of why the worm castings made such a big difference. These are tiny with very little stored nutrients in the cotyledon to help get them going.

I labeled these seeds from darkest to lightest, 1 being darkest and 6 being the lightest. This was number 2, one of the darker seeds. 5 and 6, the two lightest colored seeds, have not sprouted yet.

I think we will get a good germ rate now that I have finally figured out that they needed some compost to get them started. We are at %70 percent with this method so far. Soaking the seeds got %50.

[Dalorean]

Oh ya I’m glad I stumbled on this one! I recently learned about the landrace strains and they are fascinating! I’m surprised more people don’t grow them. Hope there’s room for one more in here, this is probably the best grow diary I’ve found yet!

[zephyr]

@PlantShepherd One last sprout! 5/6 from the second half of your pack.

So that’s approximately %85 germination with direct sow in solo cups filled rich potting soil with about an eighth of a cup of worm castings mixed in to the topsoil, and watering by misting the soil with lactobacillus serum dilution.

So here is my final score with the cangshan.
Round 1 (2020): 24 hour soak then sow in potting soil- 5 seeds- 0/5 %0

round 2: alternating soaks of lactobacillus serum dilution and hydrogen peroxide until germination- 6 seeds - 3/6 %50

Round 3: alternating soaks of lactobacillus serum dilution and hydrogen peroxide until germination- 7 seeds – one cracked in the water, but it didn’t survive once planted. One sprouted in the soil after 2 weeks of dormancy, but died shortly after. - 0/7 %0

Round 4: direct sow in rich soil with worm castings and watering with lactobacillus serum 6 seeds - 5/6 ~%85

total: 8 out of 22 %36

Not easy stock to germinate.

Hopefully the fresh stock I make will have good viability. and if these landrace seeds are shorter lived than hybrid cannabis, hopefully we can keep it active here in the community.

In some cases a low germ rate from landrace stock will at least act as a form of natural selection for better seed viability / seed storage characteristics in the next generation. In nature seeds only need to last 3 to five months until they germinate in spring. In cultivation, we would like them to be more shelf stable than that.

[zephyr]

They are doing very well. the ghost sprout is still tiny, that was the smallest cannabis sprout I have ever seen. Its color is good though.

@PlantShepherd

[PlantShepherd]

Dang Zephyr! Glad you are germing these and not me! I don’t have enough experience with landrace seeds to feel confident with them. I really love the shape of the leaves and can’t wait to see what they look like when they get bigger. I’m super excited to see you grow these out. They have been sitting in the seed stash for so long now! Om shanti!

[zephyr]

Here are the first 3 cangshan plants in their new home in fabric pots ranging from 80 to 120 gallon. Maybe larger, I cant remember exactly what size, but these are in my largest pots.

They have just established and are starting to grow. They are still looking slightly pale, but overall quite good. Now that they are established they should start to take off soon.

Their companion plants are lemon balm, garlic, wild California poppies, calendula, and a few other wildflowers.

This one has some really nice pale red or purple / blue coloration in the new growth, kind of like Lebanese landrace red phenos.

@PlantShepherd

You can see they have some slight leaf damage from munching bugs. The leaves are incredibly soft and tender, I have never seen leaves this thin and delicate on a cannabis plant. These plants are very very low fiber content compared to most landraces or modern hybrids.

These are no chinese hemp, these are as far from hemp as it gets. looks like a very interesting medicinal / drug landrace.

I still need to give these pots some fresh compost, kelp meal, mulch, and lactobacillus soil inoculation to start the season. That should improve the color of the cangshan plants, although some SE asian lines and thais are naturally light colored.

The soil is a blend made with my native soil, which is volcanic clay. High altitude landraces, himalayan strains, and thai tend to do very well with this clay soil. This organic clay soil is a good fit for landraces with low nutrient needs that burn easily, and landraces that are no adapted to use with nutrients and other processed fertilizers. I use it for all of my plants.

It is amended with compost, leaf compost, green mulch from nutrient fixing / accumulating plants, extra humus and local vegetable blend soil, aeration, and trace amendments. The clay takes care of all the mineral and trace nutrient requirements of the plant, and because of the characteristics of the clay, it holds available nutrients from compost and other sources until the plants metabolize it.

[minitiger]

Glad I noticed this when I logged on and glanced at the new topics section. And just in time, too. This sounds like a super-interesting grow. Kudos to Bodhi for having the balls to go to China on a collection trip (I don’t think I would haha) and to you, zephyr, for growing these out. Looking forward to some nice summer reading for sure.

[Gpaw]

Very cool looking at your plants and their companions.
They look so natural and harmonious in their environment, shocking to think by August the companion plants will be totally dwarfed.

@zephyr

The soil is a blend made with my native soil, which is volcanic clay. High altitude landraces, himalayan strains, and thai tend to do very well with this clay soil. This organic clay soil is a good fit for landraces with low nutrient needs that burn easily, and landraces that are no adapted to use with nutrients and other processed fertilizers. I use it for all of my plants.

It is amended with compost, leaf compost, green mulch from nutrient fixing / accumulating plants, extra humus and local vegetable blend soil, aeration, and trace amendments. The clay takes care of all the mineral and trace nutrient requirements of the plant, and because of the characteristics of the clay, it holds available nutrients from compost and other sources until the plants metabolize it.

That is a great insight. It gives me a direction to explore later. I’m interested in following your amendment process.

I’ve been experimenting with nitrogen fixing as well.
First lesson learned was yes, you can get nitrogen toxicity by over-seeding clover prior to planting.
Timing is everything, planting the clover (a little goes a long way) before flower makes them really go.

How do you find the clay soil for watering? Does it develop dry zones ?

Cheers
G

[PlantShepherd]

Nice!! I was going to ask if that was Calendula! Then I kept reading! Love the big pots! And I know exactly what you mean about soft velvety leaves. Blueberry Silvertip is just like that. It’s so soft, it makes it difficult to grow, and every bug and mold is attracted to it. I’m still so totally stoked you are growing these out!

[Guitarzan]

@Gpaw

First lesson learned was yes, you can get nitrogen toxicity by over-seeding clover prior to planting.

Seriously? Man, I’m glad you posted that. I’ve never used a cover crop before, but I bought BuildaSoil’s clover cover crop blend, and was gonna use it on my 25x25 outdoor plot this year.

I checked the site, and BAS says to use 1/2 tbsp, or about 6 grams per sq ft of surface area. Based on that I’d need 8 pounds for my 625 sq ft plot. But they also say 1 pound broadcasted will cover 900 sq ft.

Any thoughts on which one of those might be correct? I don’t want to toxify anything if I can help it.

Thanks.

[Gpaw]

I got conflicting info as well. I had 10+ per square inch. I started to clover the same time as I started soaking the beans. So the clover was well established by the time I got the sprouted beans planted.
The Nitrogen toxicity set on about half way through veg, at the time I kept wondering what I used in the soil that was extra hot in nitrogen

I sort of figured it out about half way through flower and killed off 3/4 of the clover.

Just another useful tool for the tool box.

Cheers
G