I have had to break and flop some tops over on my white widow autos. They grew way too tall way too fast. In my limited experience with autos (2 runs so far), they respond just as well to training, supercropping, and topping as photoperiod plants.
If height is a concern, I would top at 5th node, and tie branches down if it becomes an issue. Also using a cooler light spectrum may make them grow a little shorter.
Post some pics when you get going!
My outdoor autos grew to 3 feet this summer in 3 gallon pots
This is also another good point. Your container will play a major roll in plant size. I like air pots and the like. My autos have always filled my space nicely in them, very comparable to my photos on a 60 day veg. I use 4 galons of coco/perlite and EWC per 5 gal air pot. Plants are normally 4ā+
The more I have read about auto related threadsā¦ the more I have come to the conclusion that ā¦ once I get an understanding of auto height in INDOORSā¦ I will go with option C) and try to max the grow space so it will work for 90% of auto races (still trying to locate medical strains that work). 95% of all auto races would be my āvery good resultā
and use pot etc as limiting factor ONLY as last resort as they do seem to reduce yield quite a bit.
Considering indoor, no co2, 600w/m2 or 50w/sqft light. large enough pot so 20L upto 30L or 4gal upto 6 gal. should be enoughā¦ best light/dark regime available ā¦ whatever that might beā¦ free growing so no spreading, no LST, no topping, no HSTā¦
I am guessing ā¦ for setup desc aboveā¦
60% of all autos would be max 3 1/2 ft or 100cm tall
85% of all autos would be max 4 ft tall or 120cm
95% of all autos would be max 5 ft tall or 150cm
with co2 and 1000w/m2 or 90w/sqft ā¦ I guess max 20% to plant height?
pleas correct me if you feel I am way off in my estimatesā¦ I guess I have to write to seed companies and ask about few specific Auto strains to get a grip on advert. info and how it relates to indoor growing.
I donāt think soā¦ I believe the Sativas would stretch more than Indicas
plant size if everything else is consistent is down to the genetics.
What i have found in my mild experience is the āOutdoorā autoās are typically just longer flowering autos such as 10+week plants, so because of that extra time they have the ability to get bigger due to the longer time span of them.
In comparison your āIndoorā autos typically have shorter flowering times, so say on a 8-9 week strain come week 4-5 you more or less know how big the plant will be where as the āoutdoorā will still have an extra couple weeks to throw out some growth.
Thats where pot size limitation and training techniques come in.
Really you wonāt know till you run your chosen plants, and there i guess is two thoughts to it IMO, either give the plants enough space where they can spread out and they arenāt fighting with there neighbors for light and you can flop a top or two if needed to keep a level canopy, Or let them run more condensed, but be caught up on your training techniques as their height will be more dictated by how much they fight each other for the light your giving them.
As unless on the outer ends of the ranges, the plants can be tall or short depending solely on light levels and how much they need to fight with the other plants around them for that light.
Or that has just been my observationā¦
its always playing that game of whats the most limiting factor
yesā¦ genetic matter naturallyā¦ butā¦
it is my understanding that same autos grow much bigger outdoorsā¦ due to getting plenty of sun in ideal latitudes
Yesā¦ this is indeed the game of what is the limiting factor.
The potsize and light I listed will not match ideal outdoor environmentā¦ 100cm or 3 feet deep 40 Gal or 150L container for each plant is not doable (for me) indoorsā¦ What I listed are (afaik) close enough to optimalā¦
Now I am trying to figure out how much space (height) should be reserved so that height will not be limiting factor.
I contacted couple of seed banks. That got me nowhere fast. Not even info on what environment they base the range for their plants.
I guess I will have to figure out the max height I can allocate to autos ā¦ this will cost me fairly dearly ā¦ but too low space would be constant source of aggravation and yield loss. I was kinda hoping to find out more clear cut answer to autos height(s).
maybe I should have asked what is the tallest auto you have seen in person indoors WITHOUT co2 and WITH co2 ? extra brownie points if you can tell me some key info about that setup. how much w/sqft in veg and in flower. how would you characterize the spectrum used. what light cycle etcā¦
There are a few auto strains Iād really like to try. Iād like to try running a round of one and making some fem seeds as well to have around. If I use STS or something and pollinate one with itself (or one from the same pack) will the offspring be more or less identical to the original seeds?
Also, does a plant used for seed need the same conditions as one for consumption? Iād want to run the seeder in a closet or something far away from my room, so I would probably use compact fluorescents or something small for lighting.
I think the general recommendation is to rather pollinate another female than pollinate the same plant.
I think the only two gategories to consider are 1) polinate the plant with its own pollen. 2) pollinate the plant with pollen from another plant. No special attention is needed in regards of āfrom same pack of seedsā
Conditions needed for bud and seeds are very similar. Odor, light, feeding. Experts can tweek these a bit but same condition are ok. very little light means smaller plant and maby less quality seeds (no report on quality and lightā¦ just my informed guesswork.
hope this is of some help
Iāve read on other forums about a guy that self pollinated a female diesel ryder and sprouted those seeds. He had 0 hermies but, had like 2 runts out of 10 seeds if I remember correctly. I donāt know if selfing was the problem.
I have thought about selfing autoflowers, but most pollen chuckers on forums complain about how hard it is to keep them alive and/or turn them succsessfully.
Also, regular auto seeds are hard to come by, and those that I could find online were old dwarf strains that donāt do very well, especially with inexpierenced growers like meā¦
Autoflowers would be perfect for an outdoor in my area, Iām tired of waking up in the morning to move the pots from dark to lightā¦ 
Cheers !
Interesting stuff, thanks! Iāve never made seeds before but have read lots about it, but autos are a whole different animal.
@enomuumi, why not pollinate to itself? I thought this was a common practice? Should the seeds in a pack be so consistent that it wouldnāt matter?
The reason I ask is because the auto strain i like comes in packs of 5. My room holds 4 plants so I figure I could knock the remaining one up with itself elsewhere.
You can do either or, also could target pollinate a couple of bud sites on all the plants if need be.
My experience is that self made seed āthrough use of CSā pollinating the same plant say seperate branches, once pollen is produced you tend to be later along in flower than you may preferably like for seed production as it takes a bit of extra time to do so, thus why most people pollinate other plants instead as you can run out the tobe-reversed plant 2-3week ahead of the other plants.
As for the seeds that come from that, if selfed they are like the original plant, but if intermixed in your seed pack and they arenāt quite a few generations deep you will get variability as my experience is not much of what you get out there has been stabilized up to a point where its basically a āclassic style IBLā where every seed produces the same plant. My experience with say my Dark Devils, is that the original pack had some variability, but now in f2ās you can see the divergence of traits in definite groups, like i have a green pheno that expresses in partial % from originally purple plants.
Thanks, I was hoping youād chime in I get the impression you know what youāre doing!
When you say variability in the f2s, do you mean major differences, or just less consistent than the original? I donāt think Iāll bother if Iāll end up with a bunch of freaks that are unpredictable lol
Well thatās most of the fun, seeing what comes out of it and not necessarily freaks, as that totally depends on how you breed them and the starting genetics. If you select plants with traits that favor you and your grow environment it should just get better in time.
As for difference, they are noticeable and not in really a minor or major way, but say they do vary in bud structure, growth patterns, color expression enough that there is distinct differences but thats in subsequent generations.
Great info, thanks! Iāll have to do some more reading before I form a plan, but itās good to know itās viable.
there are many places around the globe where autos are perfect for outdoor necessary even including my backyard in central new york we have a very short growing season and its hard to grow cannabis to full maturity unless you get a fast cultivar or use light dep usually you just find a ton of homegrown immature flower come september and october its tough with snow in october needless to say autos are perfect for me grow on folks
Sorry for late responseā¦
my statement is based partially on stuff that I have read (in the net), partially on my (intermediate ?) knowledge of genetics and how they work.
selffing a plant is IMHO NOT the same as taking a clone.
YES. selfing will produce seedsā¦ BUT I am consearned what selfing will do to genetics down the lineā¦ ( One dose not (generally) have control on where the selffed seeds will end up ā¦ and they can end up in someones breeding experiment or be released into the nature ā both are bad)
I do feel that the savings (cost of seeds & facilities to grow) of one extra plant are fairly insignificant when compared to potential damage in (few? some? dozen?) generations down the line. Naturally (as far as I can extrapolate the situation) each time a plant is selfied the issues are increased ā¦ I guess the increase will be more than linear ā¦
So selfing a plant the first time is likely to produce acceptable seedsā¦
But selffing those seeds will likely promote undesired traitsā¦
It would be lovely to have knowledge on how fast ( how many consecutive selffings) it would take for generated seeds to become āgenetic undesirablesā ā¦ and how occasional breading with a plant with different genetics will affect this speed of decay.
As all ways ā¦ please do due diligence and study the basics of genetics and in-breading for more complete and tested answer.
As an anecdoteā¦ just because something is a standard practice dose not mean that it is a good practice.
Take a look at European monarchy system during middle ages, late middle ages and early Renascence ā¦ inbreading within royalty (standard practice ) produced undue amount of ailments in both the body and mind of later generations.
SkunkmanSam said, on Hash Church, that after about the third generation of selfing, the offspring were weak, lacked vigor, and some were sterile.
Chimera likes to self a plant to see what recessive genetics may be hiding in a plant.
Crossing to another, unrelated plant, restores hybrid vigor.
I have been thinking more about taking a femaleā¦ Forcing her maleā¦ Using her to cross with another femaleā¦ So you can take 2 proven females and breed them togetherā¦ So it isnāt truly selfingā¦ But I donāt have to deal with the unknowns of a new male in the mix
What would be the sex of of F1 generation from doing that? Just curious