Lots of HST, huge pot, insanely long veg period, it’s possible, but why do it.
@vernal I think most people know by now you don’t run organics and that’s all gravy, each to their own and all that but constantly getting on these threads to prove your point or disprove others must be tiresome. It’s like someone who hates Trump watching Fox news and then complaining it’s a biased news source instead of just turning it off. If anyone looks at your grow diaries there’s no denying you grow some good looking herb and if synthetics are what works for you then you’ve got nothing to prove.
Does this include all the round-up being sprayed on crops in places like Mexico as part of the war on drugs? That shit has been poisoning farmers for years.
And let’s be fair Vern you promote the use of Eagle 20 which is systematic and poison too but if it’s only you consuming your tree then that’s not harming anyone else… saying that though you shouldn’t be advocating it to people who are trying to learn and ask questions on the forum like you did on the pm thread.
I think you meant to say pure cocaine is a “natural plant extract” which technically it’s not and if you think people who are cooking up crack are using uncut coke then you are wrong. Majority is cut before it even leaves South America therefore making it far from natural.
All this being said I’m not going to start using pasta water on my next grow but if that’s what works for someone who really cares, I don’t
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Oh sure a visit would be bucket list stuff, I mean when and where do we all go to see this wonderful farm. It is always a kinda of heady experience to wander amongst outdoor plantations of this beautiful plant, thanks for doing this and sharing your knowledge
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Bunch o stumps now, little frost hit, some snow for five minutes and seeding some leftovers
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Yeah here too freezing fog, frost.
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Cocaine powder is cocaine hydrochloride, a salt. Crack is basified free cocaine. If anything crack is closer to the naturally occurring alkaloid.
Round up isn’t a fertilizer. It’ll kill your plant lol.
E20 has 500x+ less cyanide potential in residual levels than what you get from untreated combusted Cannabis…there’s a link to that study in the PM thread.
I don’t care if people use organics. It’s the terribly misinformed relentlessly smug “your product inherently sucks because of the fertilizer format” attitude that grinds my gears. You need only look in the thread. It borders on zealotry.
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Heath Robinson did it, those old threads are legendary.
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Which all natural plant solvents are you using for extraction?
I think this discourse is off course 
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Believe it or not, they use gasoline, actually. Which is a fraction of oil deposited from ancient forests and peat swamps…mostly during the Carboniferous period.
Petroleum and fractions thereof is 100% plant based and organic. All natural, from the earth. Someone tell me I’m wrong.
Does this not perfectly illustrate my point that organic/synthetic is a pointless dichotomy?
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You are not wrong.
But isn’t it a simple base reaction or are we talking about something different in the process?
Baking soda, what’s the other one…freebase…I can’t remember.
or you can do coco-perlite in small bags and get hand watering with the synth nutes. We’re flexible!
I can only tell you that the tomatoes grown in soil taste better. Never done a side by side and taste test after. Anyone here done it?
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We buy organic bananas all the time. They’re about 2x as much as regular, but regular bananas are so cheap that it makes no functional difference cost-wise. Plus they’re always in stock when regulars are sold out. Tastes identical to me. Same banana clone, the Cavendish.
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there is the issue. I can taste the difference
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I know what solvents they use, and I think I also tasted cinnamon and eggs.
I don’t know if petroleum is really plant based, but I’m pretty sure it is carbon based so by definition it would be organic.
Not when using the horticultural definition of organic, where chemical and biological processes are working together as a larger organism. Ideally these processes balance eachother out in some happy state of equilibrium.
This is arguably distinct from the approach of synthesizing or processing the needed components in advance. The synthetic approach comes with the greater challenge of trying to balance all of the inputs tailored exactly to your needs.
I’m not sure what this organic/synthetic argument has to do with soil cation exchange capacities.
Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate your stance on a lot of things, but your crack cocaine analogy is a bit off the mark.
Strawberries and strawberry jam are made of the same stuff sure, but they are not the same.
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First thing I’ve understood in your convo w/Vernal, but damn right.
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Maybe you can, but ask yourself, objectively:
Could you do it in a blind taste test, 5 organic bananas and 5 regular of identical ripeness and nail every one?
Maybe I’m different than everyone else, but it seems more likely I’m not.
I’ve grown the same cultivar in both full organic water-only soil, and in full hydroponic+salts. I’ve actually done this with a couple different cultivars. The only discernable difference I can find between the two clones in either setup was, a terpene reversal, a very slightly more complex smell in the soil grown, and much better yield from the hydroponic grown.
By Terpene Reversal I mean, if you grow it in soil and it comes out smelling/tasting like hash and berries in that order. When I’d grow the same plant in hydroponic salts, it would come out smelling/tasting like berries and hash, in that order. Almost like the dominant terpene becomes less dominant depending on how it’s grown.
Again, a very slight extra complexity in the smell and taste of the soil grown, but nothing that would make me rave about it.
And a much larger plant with much better yield in the hydroponic setup considering the same time frames.
NO discernable difference in high at all.
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It’s simply a matter of paying attention to your senses, some people will be more attuned to it than others.
Organic produce does not automatically taste better. (I have one particular banana producer in mind that a local market carries that is organic and consistently of poor taste/texture).
There are many factors that make great produce, but there is a reason you don’t have the top restaurants and wineries all fighting over hydroponically produced ingredients.
Microorganisms and chitin are two things that are missing by that have a very real and measured effect on the plant and the aroma compounds and oils it produces.
Yes, the distinction between wether something is certified organic, synthetic, or inorganic is all a bit asinine, but to say that there is nothing extra that soil offers is equally asinine.
Sure you can do aquaponics or living hydro, but that’s not what you are trying to argue, as those still contain that composted/decayed/fermented matter you speak of because those microbes need food.
The gut microbiome has massive effects on the human body, unfortunately because it is something that doesn’t have an easy cut and dry one size fits all solution/way to cash out, it doesn’t get as much research or progress as it deserves, but I digress.
The soil microbiome similarly has a large effect on plants. You could argue that you prefer the plants in the absence of that, but when it comes to aromatic plants, you would be in the minority of this opinion of those who expertise is in aromatic plants. All of the top perfumers distillers and chefs in the world are going to be choosing aromatics grown in soil.
I think this perfectly illustrates part of what I am trying to get across. That there are many factors that play a roll, and the distinction of organic/inorganic is a minor one.
I do not currently have the space for such a thing, but I think it would be really interesting to do the same cut, run at the same time under the same lights in the same room and do one with all inorganic inputs, one “organic” soil, and one where the primary goal is focusing on the health and diversity of microbiome around the root system.
A sensory analysis panel and some lab tests afterwards I’m sure would be really interesting to see.
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I’m still of the mind that if you take two identical plants and all other conditions are optimal grown in the same environment your grow media is of little consequence. You pull a hit from a joint of each you’re not gonna be able to tell the difference.
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This has honestly been my experience.
And after trialing multiple plants this way, 9 out of 10 times I choose to grow with salts. It just works better for me.
You gotta do you, what works best for you.
There are a couple cultivar’s I’d prefer soil grown just to get more of a specific terpene that might only express in soil, but that’s the only reason. Everything else came out the same. Just hydro does it 10x cheaper for me and no bugs 
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