well, i smoke a lot of bud, ape style. it seems relevant for at least me.
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This is a very interesting conversation, I love it. My number one goal is also great terpenes over potency. With all the options out there why smoke something that doesnāt smell and taste good, just to get high? I canāt wait for more science on all this. And a plan for breeding for terpenes is extremely exciting to me but I am not sure we will find a map to guide us on this one
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Lemon + Lemon = Super Lemon.
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Hereās the latest study I could find @splinter7 @GreenHighland
ā Mutagenicity and Genotoxicity
Myrcene inhibited cyclophosphamide induced sister-chromatid exchanges in Chinese hamster V79 cells and cultured hepatic tumour cells (122). Myrcene had no genotoxic potential in mammalian cells in vitro and did not induce chromosome aberrations or sister-chromatid exchange. Ī²-Myrcene reduced CP-induced sister-chromatid exchanges in human lymphocytes in a dose dependent manner. Also, it did not influence the genotoxicity of methane sulfonate and benzo[a]pyrene (123). Additionally, Ī²-myrcene (doses ranging from 100 to 1,000 Ī¼g/mL; 734 to 7,341 Ī¼mol/kg) reduced the cytotoxic and mutagenic effects of CP in V79 Chinese hamster cells, when tested with rat liver S9. The authors suggested that myrcene had the ability to inhibit cytochrome P-450 isoenzymes which activates compounds with mutagenic and carcinogenic properties (123).
No evidence of chromosomal aberrations in bone marrow cells of rats administered Ī²-myrcene (0.1, 0.5, or 1.0 g/kg bw; 734, 3,670, 7,341 Ī¼mol/kg bw) was observed. Although there was no evidence of myrcene-induced clastogenicity, there was a dose-dependent increase in the mitotic index of bone marrow cells at 24 h (124). Additionally, there was no increase in the frequency of micronucleated normochromatic erythrocytes, a biomarker of both acute and cumulative chromosomal damage, in B6C3F1 mice treated with Ī²-myrcene (0.25 to 2 g/kg; 1,835 to 14,681 Ī¼mol/kg) by gavage for 3 months (26).
Ī²-Myrcene expressed antimutagenic activities against aflatoxin B1 (AFB1) in Salmonella typhimurium (TA100). Doses of 1.5 and 3.0% of Ī²-Myrcene, showed inhibitory actions of 65 and 73%, respectively when tested with 1.0 Ī¼g/plate AFB1 in the presence of exogenous metabolic activation (rat liver S9) using TA100 and the pre-incubation method (125). The NTP (2010) and (126), concluded that Ī²-myrcene was not mutagenetic based on the negative Ames test using Salmonella strains (TA97, TA98, TA100, and TA1535) with and without metabolic activation. It was also negative in the Escherichia coli test system (strain WP2 uvrApKM101) with and without metabolic activation (S9 fraction from Aroclor 1254-induced rat or hamster liver), and in an in vivo micronucleus assay in B6C3F1 mice (26).
Ī²-Myrcene inhibited the activity of pentoxyresorufin-O-depenthylase (PROD), a selective marker for mono-oxygenase CYP2B1, necessary for the activation of genotoxins in rats (127). Ī²-Myrcene also demonstrated protective effects against t-butyl hydroperoxide induced genotoxicity in human B lymphoid NC-NC cells, which was predominantly mediated by their radical scavenging activity (128).
Carcinogenicity/Anti-carcinogenic Activity
Multiple studies have demonstrated that Ī²-myrcene exposure had anticarcinogenic potential in in vitromodels. Administration of Ī²-myrcene suppressed the in vitro formation of N-Nitrosodimethylamine (NDMA), a potent carcinogen, by 88% (129). In MCF-7 cells, Ī²-myrcene (IC50, 291 Ī¼M) inhibited the breast cancer cells growth in vitro, but was slightly toxic to normal Chang liver cells (IC50, 9.5 mM; 9,500 Ī¼mol/kg) (130). Additional studies have also implicated the cytotoxic effect of Ī²-myrcene against a broad range of cancer cells, such as MCF-7 breast carcinoma, HT-29 colon adenocarcinoma (131), P388 leukaemia cells (132) and other tumour cell lines (25, 133, 134).
On the other hand, in a model of 7,12-dimethylbenz[a]anthracene (DMBA)-induced mammary carcinogenesis, Ī²-myrcene did not exhibit significant chemopreventive activities. Ī²-myrcene did not reduce the total number of mammary tumours or the median tumour latency period in a group of female Sprague-Dawley rats (age, 6 weeks) fed diets containing Ī²-myrcene (purity, 94.3%) (135).
In the 2010 NTP study, a gavage study in groups of male and female F344/N rats and B6C3F1 mice was conducted over 2 years. Rats and mice were given doses of Ī²-myrcene (0, 250, 500 or 100 mg/kg/day; 0, 1,835, 3,670, 734 Ī¼mol/kg/day) in corn oil for 5 days per week (26). The Ī²-myrcene provided had a purity of 90% and contained other impurities, such as Ļ-limonene, (Ā±)-limonene and isomers and dimers of Ī²-myrcene. The presence of other components could render the carcinogenic results attributed to myrcene in the NTP study as potentially invalid. The doses given to the rodents had a strength five orders of magnitude greater than the exposure to food flavouring additives containing Ī²-myrcene, which is normally found in a human population (27).
The results of the NTP study showed that there was an increased incidence of renal tubule adenoma or carcinoma in treated male rats (not for female rats, or mice). Furthermore, there was clear evidence of a dose-dependent increase in hepatocellular adenoma, hepatocellular carcinoma, and hepatoblastoma in male B6C3F1 mice (26). Spontaneous tumours were also observed in the vehicle control group, this is of no surprise as the male B6C3F1 mouse is known for having a high background incidence of hepatocellular tumours and may not be of relevance to humans (27).ā
fnut-08-699666.pdf (377.9 KB)
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stoner science might suggest this is all related to dry mouthā¦itās the kidneys right? drink more water i guess.
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I was hoping this post might be the beginning of the map of breeding for terps. This is my main goal, I was hoping to find some more experienced breeders that might want to help the cause as I have never gotten that far yet.
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I believe that article applies to synthetic beta myrcene and not natural occurring like in cannabis and mangos etcā¦ stuff that could leach into The water system via additives to food sources. ābeta-myrcene as known to the State to cause cancer under the Safe Drinking Water and Toxic Enforcement Actā
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Lol, I definitely need to drink more water. The kidney stones!!!
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and that āStateā seems to claim cancer on a lot of stuff that no one else seems to care aboutā¦there is that too.
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Seems like most breeders cross two strains and then test it to see what terps it has and then are like woo who, this new strain I made has these cool terps. But the terp profile that resulted wasnt anything they were aiming for. Breeders test for terps but I was wondering if anyone knows how to get what you are aiming for. There must be a reason that certain terps become dominant rather than others. What makes this decision in the cross.
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Super Lemon + Super Lemon = Super Duper Lemon
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feeding schedules and type can drastically alter the terpene profile. Growing the plant in soil is likely going to have the reverse terpene profile of the same exact cut grown in hydro with salts. As in, the dominant terpene grown one way, will be the recessive terpene grown another. Berries with a little hash smell in soil becomes hash with a little berry smell in hydro.
I donāt believe these commonly tested terpenes are causing all these different effects. You canāt look at a paper and know how thatās going to effect you. Only way to know the effects is to smoke or ingest it. If terpene and percentage reports were all that mattered, cookies might actually be good weed, but itās not.
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Im going to go ahead and contest that. A substantial component of the effect is derived not from cannabinoids or terpenes, but flavanoids, especially apigenin, for example. Apigenin and compounds like it are well known GABAa modulators and reduce anxiety. In fact, some flavanoids and flavanols can form dimers or coupled compounds with other substances which may have a different effect. I think there is much more to effect profiles than simply major cannabinoids and major terpenes. Minor components and other classes entirely, especially flavanoids, are a good place to look or quantify effects.
Great idea for a thread btw. Ripe for discussion!
EDIT: mostly, terpenes seem to boil down to myrcene, caryophyllene, limonene, pinene, seem the most active, but possibly also a-bisabalool, linaloolā¦ what other terps have a relevant action?
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I most certainly can look at the profile and know exactly how most of them will effect me, I have done a pretty extensive trial into it. I dont know what every single possible combination of profiles are going to do to me because there are many terps and combinations I have not or can not try. But there are many terps I am very familiar with and know exactly what the profile will be like except for some minor differences.
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I dont think Terps are nearly as important as people make them out to be. Ive got some forbidden fruit 8% terpy stuff that doesnt hit me at all like this 2% chocolate diesel.
Iāve seen good results with macks terps out of LA. https://www.macksterps.com/
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Throw a little placebo effect into the mix. Like with plants I like the smell of better than plants I donāt like the smell of? Do those plants that I like better effect me differently because I like them more than plants I donāt like the smell of. Could it be like pheromone attraction to people we like without knowing it, could those smells in cannabis be catering to our underlying wants and needs?
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Heres another way to look at it. Peppermint, the hybrid called Mentha piperita, has a wide variety of terpene and nonterpene actives. If you drank peppermint tea, you may not necessarily call it an active plant, but there is obviously some pharmacologic activity going on: gastric relaxation, calming effects, even some mild stimulant effects can be described from peppermint tea.
A component of some Mentha species, the terpene carvone for example, has āantimanicā activity: Antimanic-like effects of (R)-(-)-carvone and (S)-(+)-carvone in mice - PubMed
Menthol may contribute some negative allosteric modulation on nicotinic acetylcholine receptors, cause some degree of muscular or mental relaxation/inhibition. Strictly speaking, menthol is a monoterpenoid: Menthol suppresses nicotinic acetylcholine receptor functioning in sensory neurons via allosteric modulation - PubMed
In this one, peppermint reduced reactions to the stimulation by acetylcholine, serotonin, and histamine The mechanism of action of peppermint oil on gastrointestinal smooth muscle. An analysis using patch clamp electrophysiology and isolated tissue pharmacology in rabbit and guinea pig - PubMed
A big part of the way other terpenes work really is that āentourage effect.ā They modify small, potentially unnoticeable pathways that affect the actions of other substances like the major cannabinoids. For example, a part of myrcene is increasing the uptake of cannabinoids - the change in slope pf blood plasma could lead to a slightly different onset experience compared to a limonene heavy strain for example.
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Like I said before: think of the terps as a type of electric energy, each terp has a different vibration or energy which makes us feel a different way. The THC is like the amperage of that electricity. So if your chocolate diesel has a higher THC it is going to make those terps more potent than the lower THC forbidden fruit.
Also, the two strains have different profiles so comparing the terp percentage between the two strains is kinda irrelevant.
When looking at terps you need to look at the percentage of each terp in relation to the other terps in the same strain.
Also those different terps in the two different strains give different feelings, Im not tralking about how heavy the stone is but about the type of high the terps give.
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If some people are able to discern 15 different types of highs and 3 different multiplying effects based on terp profile and thc content god bless you. I get two different highs no matter what weed or concentrate I smoke. Up, energetic, light stone and heavy, unfocused, old school brick weed stoned. Thatās about it and Iāve smoked it all. I love good smelling/tasting weed though itās part of the fun.
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Yeah everything I buy gets tested for cannabinoids and terpenes. Iāve compared nearly all profiles and I do not have a single terp profile that āworksā for me because thats not what determines what strains work for me. Iāve tried to base it on terps and it never matches up. I love chems and OG so i thought limonine and myrcene but nopeā¦ doesnt mean ill like the strain. The only one that is really noticable is when theres 4%+ Terpinolene because it makes my joints really sore. Maybe we shouldnt be vaping/smoking such high concentrations.
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