How would one go about turning Lactic Acid bacteria Milk Curd into Hard cheese?
Im doin Some stuff from KNF, one of which is Rice Wash Lactic Acid Bacteria. It occured to me, that I am about to have a TON of Milk Curd, and it will likely be more “fresh Cheese” than I can eat in a reasonable time frame, is there anyway to turn it into a hard cheese? I do not have any specilized cultures, it will just be lactic acid seperated curd. Any advice would be great. I figure there has to be a way, people have been making hard cheese for over 4000 years, and thermophilic and mesophilic cultures as we know them have not been around for most of that time. Any advice would be greatly appricated.
6 Likes
I intend to, already done some labs and curd:
Here’s a video another Captain shared with me:
and his recipe:
already bought cheesecloth, looking for a press and a mold … 
6 Likes
I got fancy… I used 1 quart of half and half, and the rest whole milk in each gallon carboy. Its sitting in a Wine making carboy with an air lock. I have two gallons of it started today. I dont have a cheese press, but I do have cheese cloth and i can improvise a press lol. I am getting a winemakeing/cheese making press next month, mostly to press out my fermented plant juice because my arthritis can not handle that, did one 5g bucket 2 days ago, my hands still hurt lol. Great video, but not exactly what I am aiming to do, I want to make something like a cheddar, a Hard cheese.
2 Likes
i asked larry and he gave a pretty good explanation of how they did it without those cultures and i doubt very seriously that you’ll acheive a hard cheese without them since you’ve already started and presumably are using pastuerized milk. here is what he said in full:
"Before modern commercial thermophilic and mesophilic cultures were available, cheesemaking relied on naturally occurring bacteria present in raw milk and the environment. Traditional cheesemakers harnessed these bacteria by using methods that promoted the growth of beneficial strains without the need for added cultures. Here’s how hard cheeses like cheddar were made in the past:
Key Elements of Traditional Cheesemaking:
-
Raw Milk: Unpasteurized milk was used, which contains naturally occurring bacteria from the animals, their environment, and the dairy equipment. These bacteria acted as the starter cultures.
-
Environmental Bacteria: In traditional farm settings, the cheesemaking environment itself had a population of microbes. Wooden vats, cloths, and even the air would contain beneficial bacterial strains that would contribute to fermentation and flavor development.
-
Natural Acidification: Instead of adding mesophilic or thermophilic cultures, raw milk would naturally acidify over time as the bacteria in the milk consumed lactose, producing lactic acid. This acidification would cause the milk to thicken and curdle.
-
Spontaneous Culturing: Some cheesemakers would use leftover whey from a previous cheesemaking session, which contained active bacterial cultures, as a “backslop” to inoculate the new batch of milk. This method essentially recycled the bacteria from one batch to the next.
-
Traditional Rennet: Animal rennet, usually sourced from the stomach lining of a calf, lamb, or goat, was used to coagulate the milk. In some cases, plant-based coagulants from thistles or figs were also used in certain regions.
-
Temperature Control: Cheesemakers relied on natural sources of heat, such as open fires or the sun, to raise the temperature of the milk. Without thermophilic or mesophilic cultures, they would adjust temperatures intuitively, guided by the feel and look of the curds.
-
Aging Environment: Caves or cellars were common for aging cheese. These naturally cool and humid environments provided ideal conditions for the slow fermentation and development of flavor and texture in hard cheeses.
-
Cheddaring Process: The traditional cheddaring process, like today, involved cutting and stacking the curds to expel more whey and develop the texture. This was done without the precise temperature controls we use today, relying on intuition and experience.
Flavor Differences:
Cheese made this way would have had more variability in flavor, texture, and consistency from batch to batch because the exact bacterial composition was unpredictable. Modern cultures ensure uniformity, but traditional methods resulted in unique, regionally distinctive cheeses that reflected the local environment, animals, and practices.
In summary, traditional hard cheese relied heavily on natural fermentation processes, environmental conditions, and skilled intuition rather than the precise addition of bacterial cultures. This approach made every cheese batch unique!"
3 Likes
I’m not an expert but I looked into it once. It’s too complicated for a one off.
You can make Neufchâtel by hanging heavy yogurt in a cheesecloth to drip for a few days.
4 Likes
In Victorian times breweries had “magic sticks” for stirring the batches. Nobody knew why but the product was more uniform. Classic ‘if it works… it works!’
In hindsight, the wood was a repository for the culture and the transfer mechanism.
I imagine cheese/yogurt production probably had similar tools as well.
Cheers
G
6 Likes
The monks used to call it “god is good.”
2 Likes
Welp not the news I wanted but for sure what I needed to know, thank you so much for the detailed post, only thing on that list I will have is number 3, because this is exactly what I am doing making LAB(lactic Acid Bacteria) and trying to figure out what to do with the left over “fresh/farmers cheese”
i found a link to making it yourself though. try it.
1 Like
I am gonna try Salting pressing and drying it in the fridge first, I will be making way more LAB so I can try a culture later, but I do not have access to raw milk, so I would have to get something that works with store bought milk lol
Plus, without Rennet, the Curd I am gonna get would be best suited to something similar to feta rather than a hard cheese, because you dont get a solid coheisve curd with LAB
you got me interested in it now. i love colby, cheddar, and monteray jack way more than any of the soft ones and we have a cellar-like room in the basement of the new house. when things slow down i may jjust start a batch and see what happens. i know where to get some raw milk as well. times like this i wish my uncle still had the dairy farm.
2 Likes
One thing I did notice, Since I did not have rennet, the curd is more like cottage cheese/cream cheese than anything, its in my lil home made press right now after i mixed salt with it, but if it gets a nice dry rind, i do believe the center is going to stay closer to a nice soft cheese,maybe similar to a brie without the mold lol
2 Likes
I buy “fresh” milk, it’s stored in frigidaire and with not many days to consume it, guess it goes with a different process than the normal one, curd is thicker and with great flavor…
2 Likes
Not sure where your from Brother, but Here in Ohio, unless you know a dairy farmer personally,you cant get fresh milk. You can’t buy raw milk in Ohio and many neighboring states, because selling it to consumers is illegal . So you have to know a farmer willing to give it to you free.
Federal law prohibits the sale of unpasteurized milk across state lines, but individual state laws govern the sale of unpasteurized milk within the state .
2 Likes
spain if i recall correctly. you can get it in wv. the day they made it legal here they served some raw milk at the legislature and most of them got the shits and i think at least one was hospitalized. yeah, it’s not a good idea to sell that shit but hey, “muh freedumbs”…
i wonder if buying it in one state and taking it across state lines is illegal? i can see it now, rinsing out a few milk jugs and smuggling it into ohio and making a quick buck…
2 Likes
It’s called “fresh milk” but it goes through a pasteurization process: 15 seconds between 72 and 90 ºC, UHT (normal) milk goes through 135 and 140 ºC during 5 seconds, so guess fresh milk will have less bacteria killed and that’s why curd is better …
1 Like
psst pssst hey man hey man, I got raw milk man, ill sell it to you cheap man just dont tell no one you got it from me! lmao
3 Likes
Seems to exist in your continent, posted recently here:
1 Like
Maybe somewhere in the US but I have never saw it in my local store. Looked it up, that is in Ellington CT, which is like 600 miles from me lol
1 Like