The way I looked at the NL5 name change from F2 to IBL was because he was trying to be more transparent. I don’t think he knew which generation the NL5 seeds he got were so calling them F2 was less accurate than calling them IBL’s. Going from F1 into F2 and beyond is technically inbreeding I believe, so IBL in that regard fits, but it’s not necessarily true breeding either.
I could very easily be way off with my understanding and using accurate nomenclature though. These antiquated lines are fascinating. It’s so cool to think about pairing some of these seed with some of Steve Murphy’s books and seeing them come to life, as if they are springing forth from the pages of the 1970’s. Much love
a. Greg has alzheimers, he says so in his breeders syndicate episode. So his information may contain some errors, ie the filial generation of the seeds he recovered from his sisters freezer may be up for debate.
B. It seems much more accurate for somone to say ibl over an unknown filial generation.
True breeding means it breeds true for one trait, IBL means it breads true for nearly all traits, a unicorn in cannabis. When labeling something as IBL you set the expectation of uniformity.
By changing it from f2 to IBL you going from people expecting a very wide range of expressions to expecting uniformity.
You can call it an unknown filial reproduction, just call it a reproduction, but calling it and IBL, and especially with no explanation given……that’s just marketing dishonesty.
The guy from Colorado Sativas doesn’t know how to label his generations according to the accepted standards, but is extremely transparent in how he labels them. This is the opposite of that.
I have said this over and over, but folks still love the guy.
You folks that love him do realize he is the reason you can not find skunk weed anymore.
He should be known for the worlds biggest cannabis blunder.
He admits he intentionally bred out the skunk.
So you see he is not the skunkman at all. In truth he is the Anti-Skunkman.
I think, according to currently accepted definitions of these terms, calling it an IBL is far less accurate unless all of those plants come out nearly identical.
I started a whole thread about it.
The title was something like…“Phylos was a scam and all parties knew it.”
That thread is gone now…Hmmm?
Shortly after that I was banned there…LOL
I think the idea of ibl meaning possessing true breeding traits that are commonly found each generation isnt accurate, because there are always variation within a population and it ignores lines where multiple phenotype expressions are conserved
No I ordered from him in advance he sends the seeds earlier than expected and turns around and offered 3 free with ml#5 I just asked him if I could get in on the deal because I technically shouldn’t have had the seeds yet but soon as he sends does the buy nl#5 get 3 packs extra. Called me a one pack kinda customer and got mad blocked me and sent my money back lol I just was asking like the other people that had same issues. Wtf I should be on the deal. But I wasn’t rude or anything just asking what we could do.idk maybe I was wrong… not!!! You know he was wrong especially since he sent the payment back. I’m like wtf. Maybe I would have got another pack so I got the deal but we never got that far. And I’m a one pack buyer so everyone who buys one pack he has less respect for you.
I have zero horse in the skunk race, and no affiliation to Sam whatsoever.
To say one man is responsible for the loss of aromas that were supposedly once wide spread in a subsection of this plant and now nowhere to be found……. One man?
Come on dude. Even if Sam bred away from it in his stock how in the hell would he be responsible for erasing it from the entire genome.
He admitted that he inadvertently used a male that he didn’t know threw sweeter terpenes. He didn’t know until he later reversed the male. It’s my impression that it was more of a mistake than anything, and that shit happens. If you put it in context, the late 90’s and early 00’s were scary AF. People were going down for seeds hard. Look at what they ended up doing to Neville and Marc Emery.
It was probably the very last priority to keep stinky shit around at that time, and if it’s low priority AND also mistakes were made, it could very well be just an accident and not malicious intent like so many want to project.
1996 is the year some of those reproductions were made, I believe, if Todd’s info is accurate. I think there was a later repro in 2010 also. The Skunk #1 he has was collected from Mel Frank. I am not 100% sure if it was Sam or Mel who did the reproductions.
Sam has an interview with gypsy nirvana where he tells the timeline of his skunk work, he has also done it on hash church as well.
Its pretty clear it was partially intentional and a big part unintentional how skunk got sweeter.
Anyone saying they have the stank skunk (including todd, are lieing), sam bred the acrid skunk out before holland and put the nail in the coffin with his final big breeding projects there.
I’ve watched a few grows of them and even allowing for more variation because of it being cannabis, that does not seem to be the case at all. I bought them presale, I don’t care what gen they are I’m still interested and happy to grow them, I just want transparency for the community. Especially when we are dealing with something that is at the heart of so many modern lines, that actually has verifiable provenance of where it is coming from.
I kind of hate the term IBL being used in cannabis because it is almost non existent and it preys on customers by setting false expectations. We want as many people growing cannabis as possible, when you buy a pack of corn, tomatoes, etc. you expect transparency of what is coming when those seeds pop up. Same should be true(even more so) of seeds that you pay 20-50x as much for.
I will reach out to Todd and let you know what he has to say regarding the NL5
I have asked this question over and over, with no valid answer. How does a person like sam get the position he has without at least a blessing from the DEA?
Do you really feel that they wanted to bust him but just could not get to him?
He had to have their blessing, meaning he was working for them or with them.
How the hell do you pull that feat off without the DEA’s ok?
A known criminal, now turned Cannabis king?
That was not going to happen, unless they allowed it.
If sam was not DEA he was working very closely with them.
If you still say no…then I ask how did he pull it off then?
Again I ask, How did sam land his dream job?
How did he avoid the DEA?
I keep asking, but I have found no plausible answer.
BTW sam is known to lie through his teeth…so there is that to contend with.
Sam knows exactly how many varieties would be forced to pay royalties he has an exact number, he even posted it.
I forget the number, but it is posted on ICrag…at least it was.
Posted by Nevil -
Yeah, I’ve heard Sam whining before about how he should really get a royalty from everyone who he sold seeds to who used his genetics, 50% for pure lines and 25% for hybrids.
I think one day he will get his wish.
When I say these things, folks tell me I am just crazy.
But here you see his real thoughts/plans.
This is his end-game plan for his genetics. Royalties on every plant and seed sold.
wow and they saying he isn’t