AutoFem2IBL(Mephisto Double Grape, Regular)

[rasterman]

I really wanted to journal this idea, but rightfully expected a lot of denigration. But I have decided that the opinion of others shouldn’t matter. And I’ve approached this as a math problem.

I’ve read about mendellian inheritance, selection, backcrossing, selfing, reversing, and have done a fair bit of it myself.

Something about selection grabbed me. I’ve been pretty successful growing Double Grape. It’s always great smoke, the phenos all look the same to me, and I’m running offspring of a Mephisto pack I originally turned into 50 packs of feminized seed. I have family members growing it and they say it’s always good too, so it’s not just me.

So, selection. Usually, you are supposed to find an awesome mom and an equally awesome dad, breed the two together, and do some combination of selection, interbreeding and/or backcrossing to create an IBL. But a pack of seeds, if it’s consistently good, is preselected for you. It’s just all feminized.

I know this is glossing over some serious and important details. Like recessive genes and inbreeding depression. But from a mathematical perspective it’s really a tempting proposition.

So I asked about auto regular seeds, and @cbizzle was gracious enough to supply some Northern Cheese Haze x Chem Candy regs, and I crossed a few males with a few packs of Mephisto seeds. And my Double Grape seeds that I still have at least 50 of. I won’t muddy things up by giving you the names of other strains. But I started F1 two weeks before chopping my Double Grape mother.

∆∆∆ Those seedlings are 50% Double Grape, mathematically. I also tossed a few more seeds in there, so I think I’ll have 3-4 males to breed with these females for the next generation (75%) Double Grape.

The seedlings below are Double Grape - the preselected moms of the next generation.

I’ll kill about half of them, but hope to select 10 females to breed with those males. I originally tossed some seeds in there and just a couple sprouted. Then I tossed in a few more, and everything ended up sprouting!

[rasterman]

This is the program:

1. Cross polyhybrid males and Double Grape females. Offspring:50%
2. Backcross F1 males and Double Grape females. Offspring: 75%
3. Backcross BX1 males and Double Grape females. Offspring: 87.5%
4. Backcross BX2 males and Double Grape females. Offspring: 93.75%
5. Test. If this is a good place to stop, stop. Or start doing proper breeding. Otherwise, go on to step 6.
6. Backcross BX3 males and Double Grape females. Offspring: 97.88% Double Grape. Definitely the last step before doing some testing to determine whether you created a crap strain or a new IBL

[OhNo555]

Run with it bro , I will be watching this one for sure and would love to get some of them beans after your successful experiment , I believe in the outcome. I am just getting ready to run a few Double Grape Mephisto’s autos myself!

[RainToday]

Idea checks out to me - so much so that I’m already on that path with a couple fem auto strains, though I liked some of the offspring of the first cross so much I got diverted into side projects with them.

One thing I found with autos is I just go ahead and pollinate all the moms, because if I wait until the buds cure for a test smoke before pollination it takes forever, sometimes too long to even get seeds. So I do partial harvest, then pollinate them all. Then when I get to test smoking if I find any undesirable bud I go back and remove that mom & compost the seeds.

Good luck! I’ll be following along hoping to learn from your more focused project.

[FloydUjamie]

Interesting approach you’re taking with this project, man. It’s good to see someone diving into the genetics and experimenting with different crosses. Looking forward to seeing how it all turns out. Keep us updated!

[rasterman]

Absolutely - I plan to share once I get there or even along the way if anyone’s interested. I have a family member who will be growing a few of the “between seeds” for grins along the way.

[rasterman]

It’s pretty encouraging that you found stuff good enough for side projects. I’m hoping for some of that myself.

[HolyAngel]

Long as you’re picking Double Grape traits every time, the math should check out. Pick something else one of those times and you’re almost starting over again. I’m down for the show regardless, love the dedication! And Mephisto makes some good beans Thanks for sharing the progress!

[Cbizzle]

Killer project! I envisioned a similar scheme to turn all my favorite fems into regs, but look at you, putting it to work! Awesome man!

[TopShelfTrees1]

Very cool, I’m with @HolyAngel just be careful on the selections and this should be awesome.

[rasterman]

I’m considering the seeds preselected and using higher numbers of males and females to avoid that, actually.

[rasterman]

@RainToday

Then when I get to test smoking if I find any undesirable bud I go back and remove that mom & compost the seeds.

That’s a great idea. I’ve got these moms to choose from.

Since I only need a finite number of males I can get away with pollinating one branch of each. That gives me a good ounce or so of good smoke and I can use that to weed out any bad moms. Thanks for the advice!

[rasterman]

I already have two healthy males to take pollen from. The third plant in this set was female and culled.

The females aren’t even close to flower. The two males above were test germinations weeks before the other seeds were even harvested. They’ll probably be done making pollen before the moms bloom, so I carefully cut off their tops and put them in a Ziploc.

I have the Ziploc in a cool room drying out the tops. In a couple of days I’ll sift out the pollen, let it dry some more, mix it with dessicated flour and freeze it.

[RainToday]

I think you may get so much moisture in there from the leaves that it wrecks your pollen. Maybe those stems could get recut, and put them in a cup of water set in the middle of a big bowl or tub or pot? Then the pollen can fall but stay in the tub.

Alternately, maybe do what you’re doing but just put the branches in a paper bag?

And once your pollen is ready for storage, I’d test it by putting a super tiny amount, maybe onto your finger & blow off the extra outdoors, and touching your finger to one of the preflowers on the girls. Mark that one and see if you get a seed. A single seed won’t affect the rest of the plant, and if your pollen isn’t viable you’ll have time to grow some new boys.

[rasterman]

No worries, I’ve stored pollen a few times and it’s so far worked out. I know a plastic bag seems an odd choice but where I live it’s fine.

Here’s how I have it:

[Magu]

This is a very interesting project. I hope it goes quite well.

[RainToday]

Oh good
Where I am we get a lot of mold and humidity issues. You’re lucky!

[rasterman]

I know! I rarely see pests other than fungus gnats and I have a handle on them. I was thinking about moving to Tucson but when I visited my granddaughter she showed me some spider mite-infested plants outside. I don’t want to live anywhere near where spider mites are living right outside!

[rasterman]

I have 9 moms in a one gallon pot. I’ve been throwing pollen on them already but I don’t think it’s taking yet. By next week I should be able to move the male out though.

[rasterman]

I’ve culled them down to 7 moms, after killing the smallest two this morning. The seeds in these ladies are 75% Double Grape.

It just goes to show that you don’t necessarily need a lot of space for the chucking of pollen. I was pleased to find that, instead of making a lot of tiny seeds, my mothers opted to make a few fat seeds. So I should have at least 20 males from these moms for the next generation.