Will do and I might do a thread about the lab once I get things setup. Still in the spending lots of money I really don’t have on cool equipment that I can’t use yet phase lol. But I have my laminar flow hood and a used pcr thermal cycler I got off ebay so just need to buy a few more odds and ends like an autoclave and pipettors. I already have the regents from medical genomics to do testing for russet mites, Botrytis, Powdery mildew and one other thing I can’t remember off the top of my head. I got some clones from some friends in veg so I will be testing those for any pathogens/pests before going into flower. Eventually I would like to be able to do my own HLvD testing and the pcr thermal cycler I bought can be upgraded later to do those types of tests.
Edit: Fusarium oxysporum is the 4th thing I can test for.
So even if this never come into reality I love the process of brainstorming to figure out logistics so lets keep it going.
How many growers should round 1 have? Keep in mind that each grower will produce 1 maybe 2 “keepers” to move to the next round. So trying to think of how many round 1 keepers a good number to battle it out in round 2 would be? So if there are lets say 8 growers that would be 8-10 plants being grown in round 2 for the ultimate keeper selection. Is that too many? too few? I am trying to think of a number of plants that each round 1 grower would be able to grow again without crowding them out too much,
7-8 might be the sweet spot. Depending on the strain we would be going with I have anywhere from 110-117 seeds. Lets assume 100 pop and 50% are female that would be around 50 plants. 7 Growers would get 7 plants with 1 extra. Then 7 winners from round 1 go back to the 7 growers so they would be growing the same amount as they did in round 1.
Edit: I guess I am looking for feedback around optimal sample size to choose plants to keep moving forward through the process.
sounds about right… i would believe germination rate would be lower tho (accounting for “shit happens”) 80 would pop. 40 females in total is still a good number if we’re being conservative.
i think no more than 2 plants should advance the first round.
I just meant that if there were 50 females to grow out then 7 growers would get seven plants for a total of 49 plants. That would leave 1 extra plant so one of the 7 growers would actually be growing 8 plants instead of 7. Of course the real numbers would really all depend on how many seeds sprouted and how many ended up being female. With my luck lately 110 would sprout and 109 would be male lol.
Yeah I would really hope it would be only 1 plant from each grower moves on to the next round but I would like to leave the option open if someone just got lucky and found 2 killer phenos that were must haves.
I think considering most peoples setups they’d max out at a potential 10 plants. Obviously some would be able to handle more and some less, so taking that into account you’re probably in the sweet spot with like 7-8 plants per grower.
It’s cool to see the beginnings of this crowd sourced pheno hunt.
Lots of great ideas and brainstorming going on.
I think one thing to bare in mind, that I havnt seen mentioned much yet is the variations and differences in people’s growing environments and styles.
A cut run in hydro with a 1000w hps will likely be different to a 600w LED organic grown.
Things like VPD, DLI temps, soil type / amendments/ nutes etc. Could mean that the same clone ends up quite different anyway.
I know this is the case with cuts already, but something to think about while people are ruling out plants and selecting keepers.
I think that would actually be a benefit to see how the same clones perform in different setups and environments, could end up with a stronger line overall or multiple directions on the same line
I actually haven’t really found that to be the case as long as the plant is fed properly in all setups. I’ve heard it a lot. Especially from guys being unable to identify a plant from a picture, but having grown the same exact cut in DWC or hydro and then again in Super(water-only) Soil, the physical differences were very minor and the only major difference was a flip-flop of the dominant terpenes. Instead of berries and hash one way, it came out as hash and berries the other way. But the flowers weren’t far off either and the high was the same.
Seen this with other cuts I’ve given out that I run in hydro and others run in soil. Very slight differences in flowers but overall the exact same. And at most a terpene flip. Now if the plants are underfed or deficient in one of the setups, THEN there can be drastic differences.
The biggest physical difference between setups I’ve seen is indoor vs outdoor/light-dep.
This would help me. I have a real hard time relating what I smell or taste in my SSDD cut to what you, or pretty much anyone else are describing. I know I have great cut going by the feedback I get from friends and family, but all of them have a different description, too… and it’s a small base.
I probably don’t understand the purpose, would this be for preservation or selection? I was thinking you were going for selection, and in my mind, the males are a big deal with that… at least that’s what I’m looking for. Seems the great ladies are around, but THE male is missing link. Am I way off?
I did. But that depends on a tissue culture lab being set up and working… which would be wonderful for us to access, if it happens. No offense to @The_Lazy_Hippie , but this is the place for pipe dreams, lol!
Yeah identifying the males is going to be the hard part. It took bodhi years to find that other ssdd male. I’m a year into hunting for a good male myself with nada so far.
Ya I agree the differences tend to be way overblown. It’s easier to end up with quality from soil when following a proven recipe but if you know what you’re doing then soluble fertilizer can return equally high quality. I’m always jealous when I see the small pot sizes coco growers can get away with as well.
I could achieve 8-10 in a 3x3 but it’s gotta be small pots flipped early and pruned to eliminate side branches, what breeder Steve referred to as “cricket bats.” Haha. Not sure that would be the most helpful scenario to properly identify phenotypic variation, but might be a good estimation of how they’d perform in a SOG method
I think we are still trying to define what the goals would be so just sort of brainstorming different variables. We definitly should try to narrow down what the goals of this project should be because that will help decide what the processes would work best. A few possibile goals could be:
Primary goal? Find a female keeper cut (or 2) from the entire population that would then become the “OG forum” cut for that particular strain and would get shared far and wide and for FREE.
It makes sense that popping this many seeds is a great opportunity to also find a stellar male out of the line for people to use for breeding and pollen chucks! This of course adds some complexity to the scenario but I think its worth doing if others agree this should be a goal.
This is the one that I would like to open for discussion and it would be the making of f2’s for preservation purposes. This would add a significant amount of time and complexity to the project. Im not against that at all but we would need to decide if this is the direction the project should go towards.
You are absolutly correct and I am a dreamer for sure. I am confident in saying that the lab will materialize as I already have 75% of the equipment. However I haven’t done any tissue culture yet on my own. I have done some TC training at an established lab but I am sure there is going to be a huge learning curve that goes along with doing it on my own. I am a huge fan on redundancy in any plan so lets think of some additional steps to keep the boys around that doesn’t rely 100% on tissue culture.
