CBD/THC expression in hybrids

Breeder's Lab
1

…totally untested cross, like all of them :smile:
but all the parents I know.

Remedy is about 18%CBD 9%THC as reported, and mom was an orange skunk. Came from DarkHeart nursery in Oakland… RedCherryBerry was “bagseed” from a friend who helped me out when I was seedless. It’s not a destroyer type of weed but a very nice smooth calm indica dom with a-ma-zing flavor.

https://darkheartnursery.com/strains/remedy-cbd/

AKA “Z7”

And here’s CBDCrew’s closet current strain & results:

http://cbdcrew.org/lab-results/cbd-therapy-low-thc-high-cbd/

:evergreen_tree:

7 Likes
2

High-CBD is recessive (according to my limited research on the topic), so chances are the CBD won’t show up like it does in the Remedy parent.

Take it to F2 and then 25% of them will be high CBD, 25% will be low CBD, and 50% will be ???

The claims and information regarding high-CBD strains and breeding is “diverse” (to put it politely).

(Not insinuating that @cannabissequoia is making any such claims ! :evergreen_tree::v: )

7 Likes
3

Then how did Remedy get the High CBD? Wouldn’t the High THC of the Afgani Skunk have dominated the High CBD of the Cannatonic?

So if I crossed a high CBD with a High CBD , I would get a High CBD, but it drops out with a High THC?

I really hated Biology in HS. The main reason I never wanted to be a doctor. AND the reason I will leave the cannabis breeding to smart folks like y’all. I’ll just take a male and female of the same strain and pollinate just to get seeds.

== EDIT ==
Here is exactly what I mean. Someone over in the Landrace thread is talking about “P” (P1, P2, etc…)

S’s and F’s and P’s … OH MY!!!

7 Likes
4

I’m guessing they took Cannatonic x Afghani Skunk to F2, then isolated the 25% that ended up high CBD and then inbred those (or selfied them to make fem seeds).

If they didn’t do this, then the Remedy seeds themselves will have variable (to no) amounts of CBD.

Truthful breeders will often say exactly this in the strain description info. For example, here’s what CBDCrew says about their CBD Therapy strain:

…CBD Crew noticed that not all seeds came out with very low THC, high CBD. Some closer to 5:1 even a few 2:1, so CBD Crew did an extensive new round of testing of the latest seed crop to see if the variations occurred often. They found that 50-75% of the CBD Therapy seeds will have very low THC, high CBD, but 25-50% could have higher THC. No seed will produce only high THC, always both CBD/ THC. Never seeds with higher THC than the CBD, but variations from 20:1 to 2:1 can occur. In every package, there will be one or more low THC, high CBD phenos. CBD Crew are now working on making the CBD Therapy even more stable, to make it easier or the growers and users…

So now you can imagine that if it takes CBDCrew that much effort to breed a stable high CBD strain, then the chances of us getting high CBD by throwing Remedy and RCB together is slim to none. BUT there are recessive CBD genes in there somewhere and we can coax them out by taking them to F2 and pheno hunting - which is exactly what I plan to do.

Not necessarily. Depending on which generation of high CBD strains you are working with, their offspring might be 25% high CBD, 50% medium CBD mixed with medium THC, and 25% high THC.

I suspect there are multiple alleles responsible for determining CBD and THC content in plants. Compound this with the fact that breeding different generations will result in various homozygous and heterozygous combinations of those alleles and you end up with a possibly large variety of genotypes.

The conclusion is that when growing “high CBD” strains from seed, it is up to the grower to grow out as many plants as possible and then “hunt” for the ones that have the ratio they are looking for - then make that bitch yo mamma. Reading an article such as High-CBD Marijuana Strains According to Lab Data | Leafly and then spending your hard-earned money on seeds is not the end of the story. The samples sent in for those tests were hand-picked from known high-CBD phenotypes of that strain, guaranteed.

15 Likes
5

Wow thank you brother! What a great read! And a ton of info!

5 Likes
6

Good to know. I just ran into that problem. Some tests I ran

Produced 0% CBD for a strain that supposedly was balanced THC:CBD.

7 Likes
7

Some more (short, but very good) reading on this subject… The Spread of Ultra High-CBD Cannabis - Pure Analytics Blog

Through 2011, all known commercially available CBD-rich cannabis seed —Cannatonic, Sour Tsunami, et al—produced CBD-rich seedlings at a rate of 25%. Meaning 3 out of 4 seeds produced THC-dominant seedlings. As of 2012, some commercially available seeds have been demonstrated to produce CBD-rich plants at a rate of 50%. These include the Harle-Tsu and Canna-Tsu from Southern Humboldt Seed Collective…

…In 2012, through our vegetative stage testing program, Pure Analytics recorded the distribution of cannabinoid ratios from the cross of 2:1 CBD:THC parents. Seedlings grown from seed stock with a 25% frequency of CBD-dominant phenotypes from different varietals were germinated by independent breeding groups and grown to adequate size for sampling and testing to verify CBD:THC ratios during the vegetative stage. Seedlings containing 2:1 CBD:THC in the highest levels were isolated from other plants by the growers and allowed to mature until adult flowers were present for breeding and thus seed development. Pollen from 2:1 CBD:THC males was used to pollinate 2:1 females.

Approximately 25% of the resulting seeds (n=40) developed a cannabinoid ratio nearing 20:1 CBD:THC. ~25% were observed to be THC-dominant; the remaining ~50% were observed to have a cannabinoid ratio of 2:1 CBD:THC. None of the seedlings in this most recent test population were found to have a cannabinoid ratio of 1:1 CBD:THC…

Variability in CBD:THC ratios of geno/phenotypes is even common in IBL landrace strains such as Lebanese. This would be considered a “stable” line, despite the fact that there are 4 distinct genotypes with dramatically different CBD:THC ratios (and different terpine profiles, too). Check out the different cannabinoid and terpine analyses here https://www.aceseeds.org/en/libanostd.html

I guess when you are ripping a whole bunch of them out of the ground and smashing them into hash, it doesn’t matter much. :slight_smile:

7 Likes
8

:thinking: … I don’t know where I read that my clone had a 2:1 (18:9%) but that sounds about right from the effect I got, so go figure. It DID come from Darkheart, fwiw. That and my Ken’s GDP which apparently caught a little RedCherryBerry pollen, so…hmmm… :smile:

The GDP grew horribly for me but it’s effect & flavor are undeniable. Hands-down winner for my bedtime smoke.

The OrangeSunshine#1 is a CREEPER! Nothing…nothing…(later)…DAMN, i’m baked. This was my biggest plant so I’m trying to make sure to smoke extra now! :blush:

Hmm.

:evergreen_tree:

9 Likes
9

100% possible. If someone pheno hunted and found a 2:1, then cloned it, then that’s what you got.

Point is, as soon as that RCB pollen hit the Remedy clone, CBD is gone for the kids. Have to look at the grandkids for possible high CBD geno/phenos - which 1/4 of them should show.

5 Likes
10

So what does one do, if they can’t keep a bunch of Moms around to take clones from to find a steady high CBD genom/pheno?

1 Like
11

@Northern_Loki Thank you sir! :pencil:

:evergreen_tree:

2 Likes
12

Sure thing, is this better?

2 Likes
13

Wow-- just got my first http500 internal server erro when i edited at the same time you posted or it refreshed. weird. :slight_smile:

:evergreen_tree:

14

SO IT WAS YOUR FAULT???

HEHEHEHEHEHEHE :laughing:

1 Like
15

Sorry for hijacking the thread.

1 Like
16

Don’t anger the Lorax! :imp::laughing:

2 Likes
17

You posed a great question, very interesting discussion.

2 Likes
18

I got the cert error and was like, “OH MY GOD!!! What did I do? What am I going to do, not being able to get on OG? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO”

But then I shut down Firefox and restarted and hit the link. The minute I saw green, I knew I would be okay.

2 Likes
19

mmmm, sorry. We had something of a race condition occur.

1 Like
20

I can’t keep moms around either. Not yet, anyway. Therefore, my plan is to do progressive inbreeding, backcrossing, etc. and simultaneously try to dial in a Beam’s test for CBD that can indicate presence of CBD in very young plants. I can’t afford to repeatedly send samples away and have them tested, so it is my only option.

My idea is to get to the point where I have crossed two 2:1 ratio plants to get to the situation described earlier where 25% of the plants are 20:1, 50% are 2:1 and 25% are low CBD. Eventually I hope to get to know “my” strain well enough that I can find the keepers by sight alone.

Pipe dreams. :grinning:

5 Likes