Chem Hunt - VG's C4DD4 and Contra D

[Wotcha]

Hello everybody. I’ve been reading Overgrow for a long time (relatively) without an account, and finally signed up a few months ago. I’ve been smoking for about 20 years, and growing for 15 years or so with varying but overall increasing levels of success, starting with the infamous LowRyder in my parents garden, then some Seedsman Bluberry in a 60cm x 60cm tent tucked in the corner of my bedroom, and varying sizes of indoor tents ever since, with seeds from a selection of well known and less popular breeders. I try and throw a couple of photos outside every year, which always grow fantastically, but haven’t ever had a truly successful harvest from those (UK weather).

As a Brit, I’ve never had easy access to many famous strains, and have set my sights on sampling something close to the legendary Chems . Which is why I decided to run a large (for me) hunt of C4DD4 and Contra D from fellow Brit, @VerdantGreen . Other than geographical, I have no association with VG.

He’s got some great “grow alongs” with lots of information on each strain up on IC Mag, but I’m not sure if I can post links. A little snippet about each strain instead…

C4DD4:
This is a limited edition of the C4DD line crossed again to the Chem 4 clone to give more 4 leaning variety. The plants are large, high yielding and potent with a Chemmy / Lemony funk. These would also make good breeding stock and be suitable for commercial production. 9 weeks

Contra D:
This is C4DD crossed back to the Chem D clone again, which has resulted in segregation of the growth genes – Half of the plants are extra big and vigorous so high yielding keepers or breeding stock can be found, smelling of Pine and Chem. Keep in mind also that the other half of the plants may be small and stunted so if you are looking for uniform plants from your seeds then you should buy one of the other VG Chem lines. 8-10 weeks.

I’m working with a 1m x 1m tent at the moment. I started 10 C4DD4 expecting to take 5 females to harvest, and 20 Contra D, expecting between 10 and 15 healthy plants, and 5 to 8 females taken to harvest. No males will be kept this round.

All seeds were sown directly into jiffy pellets soaked in tap water on 7 Feb, and had 100% germination rate on the Contra D’s, 90% on the C4DD4, with seeds breaking the surface between 3 to 5 days later. Pic below taken on 12 Feb. (A couple of sickly looking rootbound mothers of Bodhi’s Mountain Temple and Connoisseur’s Amnesia Hazy Jones tucked away in the corner, which luckily I’ve manager to nurse back to health).

[Wotcha]

5 days later on 17 Feb, you can already see the division in the Contra D’s with 5 obvious runts.

And becoming even more apparent three days later on 20 Feb, when they were culled.

Some heavy variegation in a couple of the plants which was affecting growth and the worst affected got binned too.

The C4DD4’s were all quite uniform at this stage, albeit growing slightly slower than the more vigorous of the Contra D’s

[Wotcha]

At 12 days from sprouting, lots of roots showing so time to pot up into their final homes. 3.9l fabric pots with Plagron Allmix.

C4DD4 on the left, Contra D on the right

Roooooots

And all settled in. Top 2 rows are C4DD4 and bottom two rows are the Contra D (14 remaining out of 20 seeds started). Looking a little peaky as they’d been in light soil for so long with only some fishmix for company

[Wotcha]

But they soon recovered… here they are on 6 March, after 11 days in the rich soil (23 days from sprout)

C4DD4 top two rows, Contra D bottom three rows again.

[Pawsfodocaws]

Wicked run down on what you got going on man. My first plant grown successfully was a lowryder. Hope to see more stuff from ya.

Stay kind
Paws

[G-paS]

That is a lot of work you got going there

[VerdantGreen]

Hey, thanks for posting up the grow, having only grown a handful of these myself, it will be great to see a bigger grow !
5/20 of the contra’s were runts (or six maybe) that’s what we might expect from a typical 75/25 segregation ! - that’s so cool ! and the C4DD4 chugging along.

another grower here @LonelyOC i think has grown some of the Contra D and done some crosses.
Cheers, i like succinct narration style!
VG

[LonelyOC]

@VerdantGreen Yeah, the Chem hunt in your beans have been a rewarding one. I’m very happy with the outcome of the crosses I’ve made. Still have the 18 4DD F2 seeds to take a look at.

Ever thought of a cross from some of your D lines to stardog? I know the illuminati cut is prevelent in UK.

Pz

[Wotcha]

I’ve never got on well with Stardog, and wasn’t sure why it got so popular. I assumed it’s because it looks nice, hits quite hard at the start of the joint, and yields commercially.

Smoked in a few different cities so I’m sure it’s not down to individual growers, but it’s always felt like a dirty high with a nasty headache on the comedown.

Perhaps it’s just not the strain for me.

[Wotcha]

Thanks for dropping in VG.

I was interested to see the runt/healthy split after following the discussion on your thread on ICMag.

5 proper runts out of 20 (I don’t think the super vareigated one counts - it would probably have grown out of it had I given it the chance). Bang on 75/25 which backs up your segregation theory. Not much difference between the 75% healthy ones, although there’s a definitely a couple of triploids or somesuch in there.

Been on 12/12 for a week now so hopefully will start showing sex soon.

Cuts taken of all plants a few days ago, fingers crossed for successful rooting.

[VerdantGreen]

@Wotcha

I’ve never got on well with Stardog, and wasn’t sure why it got so popular.

I feel the same tbh. I’ve had the clone and it’s a hard hitter but has none of the ‘nuance’ of other chems i’ve tried like the D or the 4 imo, and for it to still be the primary commercial clone in the UK must be down to it’s commercial potential. I find it very coarse and hard to rip apart and grind too ! (one of the first things i thought about the Contra D was that it was better than stardog in many ways - the smoke from the first two girls i had (ive still kept both) is quite different to stardog and very moreish…potent but more piney/tasty and clearer high - and both lines should have great yield potential )

Great to hear you have taken clones. I reckon you should find a few keepers in that lot !
VG

[Wotcha]

Small update for my records.

Contra D: 7 males 7 females. One female culled - weaker growth and floppy stems.

C4DD4: 3 males 6 females.

All males culled.

Pictures to follow at the weekend.

[Wotcha]

Today marks 15 days since the first 12 hour dark period, ovenight from 08/03 to 09/03. After setting the timer I didn’t look in the tent for a few days.

When I opened it up on 11/03 to check progress I realised I’d left the light at the top of the tent, set at 50%. The plants had got… lanky… to say the least.

Fortunately, two weeks later, the actual flowering stretch seems to have finished, with plenty of headspace remaning in the tent.

Nothing particularly interesting at this stage, but I’ve uploaded some pics anyway. All plants healthy, in spite of the looooong internodes. Nodes a little more densely packed towards the top which bodes well.

C4DD4:
Very little difference between all 6, height-wise at least. Three pictured below, randomly selected from the 6.

and a close up of early flower development

[Wotcha]

Contra D:
Slighty more variation in height with these. A sample of three pictured below to show the range.

with another close up of early flower development. These seem ever so slightly further along than the C4DD4

[Wotcha]

And finally for this update, some shots of the full tent and canopy. I am surprised at how even the canopy is given this is a run from seed. Although perhaps that is to be expected from what are essentially multiple chem back crosses. Maybe someone can confirm?

Left side is C4DD4, right side is Contra D

I haven’t bothered sniffing in there much yet, but I did get a distinct whiff of brussels sprouts a few times when I brushed against the stems when watering.

Speaking of watering, they are now on 2ml/l Plagron Alga Bloom, 1ml/l Plagron Alga Grow, and 1ml/l Biobizz Fishmix. They will be fed this until the end (unless the plants say otherwise). Big respect to @OldUncleBen and his wisdom when it comes to feeding a decent amount of N all the way through to harvest. I tried it properly for the first time last grow, and I’ve never had so little leaf drop and so many leaves staying green from the top of the plant to the bottom.

Updates to follow when the flowers have formed a bit more.

[Wotcha]

Something I don’t see much of here is the use of predatory mites to control thrips and two spotted spider mites. I use them every grow as a preventative and have never had an infestation since starting.

Is there a reason they are not more widely used? Something to do with not wanting microscopic mites in cured flower? I personally don’t have an issue with this but can understand why some people might.

[VerdantGreen]

Hi Wotcha, first off, i agree about the predatory mites. I found a place to get them in small affordable quantities and usually buy some when i put a round to flower.

Plants look a bit lanky after the lighting mishap but what matters is the tops and the canopy are looking good and very promising !
As expected, the C4DD4, being a ‘wider’ cross from mostly D to 4, are pretty uniform, i think maybe you got lucky with the even height between the two varieties… but i guess you are right about them being quite similar genetics…
VG

[hawkman]

using anything special for “rooting” ? the little babies are growing up fast !!

[Wotcha]

Hi @hawkman

Just a scoop of mycorrhizal when going into the final pots. Unless you mean the cuttings… those are just in root foam things under a propagation lid. Lots of roots poking out of the C4DD4 cuts at a week and a half. None showing yet in the Contra D

[Wotcha]

Some signs of a deficiently in the fan leaves today. Any idea what could be causing it? Its not on the very top fan leaves buyt maybe 4 or 5 nodes down from the top. Order of pictures showing progression.

I’m in Plagron All Mix substrate, feeding Plagron Alga Bloom and Grow. Hard water area, using tap water left out for >24 hours

I have small cases like this almost every grow, and have not managed to work out the cause, even with all the excess/deficiency charts floating around.

Thank you.