It’s open to anyone interested.
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Dibs! 
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I heard you have to have instructions for where the bird goes in a will before you can buy a Macaw. Not sure how accurate that is, I was young and high, she had a bird.
I was haunted by the ghost of a tortoise though. Fucker would trip you in the dark.
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Those did not go out. I didn’t want them to come to my house. @upstate supplied mine and knows the story on them
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Yeah. The fact is that I don’t know enough about such things to make a proper informed decision so I prefer to err on the side of caution. It would be devastating to send out seeds that have an infection and mess up someone’s garden. I just felt people work to hard on their gardens to risk such a thing. 
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I’m not sure yet if this is Azad or Azad x Oaxaca. They seem tall for a Kashmir, keeping up with other Sativas. Definately has Kashmir style leaves. Any opinions? I only grew Kashmir one summer. Worcestshire Farms version and this one, Generic Seeds version, both at the same time. I don’t recall how quickly they took off as seedlings. I know Worcestshire version doesn’t stretch too much during flowering, but this Generic seeds line is different from Worcester Farms version. As far as I know, it also stems from @Barefrog originally. It’s neat how very different landrace lines can be in just a few short generations. One bred for sativa effects and another bred for resin. I liked both equally.
@DougDawson and @G-paS you two did the right thing. I don’t know what it means, but here’s what some leaves looked like in photo one. @firehead here’s a few of what you are growing photo 2 and 3. I can’t wait to see what you come up with!
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That’s correct the generic seeds accession was bred by kind024 on breedbay. He kept the selection as broad as possible for maximum diversity.
He has complete documentation for his preservation on z-labs glg forum. I think he used several packs of bodhi’s kashmir stock. his documentation will have all the info on the stock he used.
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Beautiful plants, and reasonably consistent in their overall “vibe”. Looks to me like the cross (probably F1?) for the reasons you note – in my experience the WCKash tend to be pretty reliable in passing on leaf structure (particularly the aggressive serrations), a stem rub with a minty/menthol/slightly pickle-like effect, and a general sturdiness of structure. The long inter-nodal spacing doesn’t reflect the Kash though, and I think you are probably right that what is pictured is the KXOax. On a side note, one complaint I have is that for all of the value they add in a cross so far as effects go, the terps tend to be just a little muted, at least in the small segment of the total Kash gene pool I’ve worked with.
So, the following would be more fitting in the Crowdsource thread, but that is closed so I’ll just drop it here with apologies for its length (…if I had a nickel…).
Part of the issue is that we are talking about two different “problems” with the product from WC’s grow. One is the variegation, the other is the damping-off pathogen – these are two separate issues, but appear to be very carelessly mushed together in the rhetorical drive toward denigration of all things WC. Maybe I’m just lucky (doubt it), but the damping off has never been an issue even in my hackey garden. Humor a few thoughts on the variegation.
First of all:
This is variegation from Generic stock consistent with that expressed in seeds from WC. (Am I the only person to have seen this?)
As for the “viroid jumping” thing, WC points only to that tiny mottled patch on a single non-Kashmir plant in his grow; can anyone point to an instance of a non-Kashmir or non-Kashmir cross acquiring the variegation via proximity or reused media? Over the last 2-3 years or so I personally grown three generations of Kashmir Azad, and as I’ve noted above, at no point – not once – did any non-Kash genetics express the unusual leaf coloration. And throughout that time I regularly had plants crammed together, and I reused media to an obscene extent, and if there was a transmissible pathogen in the mix it would have been everywhere. I don’t find his speculation of jumping at all compelling. Grow enough plants for long enough and a little mottling will show somewhere, that’s not what we’re talking about.
My personal experience aside, lets please pay attention to what the former member actually said. This will keep us from behaving like religious fundamentalists cherry-picking verses from their scripture to build theological arguments.
This whole hysteria begins with Diggy’s extremely problematic hypothesis that (nearly) all mutations in weed result from viroids – he refers to this as pure speculation and likens it to a conspiracy theory, the latter being an obvious tongue-in-cheek confession that it is at best a fringe idea; nonetheless, from that point of view it is a foregone conclusion that the variegation is pathogenic. It is thereby a given that Diggy would believe in the viroid explanation and say so, and thus quoting him saying so is irrelevant because his assertion is not fundamentally that it is pathogenic, but that all mutations are from viroids.
That’s what this conversation should have been about from the beginning, and all of this fearmongering could have been avoided.
Let’s play this out - if we are willing to accept his notion, then it follows that ALL varieties with any abnormality that might be a mutation (AKA: viroid) have to be treated with the same paranoiac response, as does every other product emerging from the facility producing the viroid ridden variety (Can’t be too careful! Maybe the whole place is contaminated!).
It’s entirely plausible that some mutations stem from viroids, but there are other well-known reasons for badly or unusually copied genetic material and its expression – it could be from heavy concentrations of unwanted recessives via inbreeding, it could be chemically induced (such as in Colchicine), it could be a stress response turning on a problematic gene, it could be a numbers game and mom made a mistake in the mad rush to make 5000 babies (and of course dad was no help at all…), etc.
Point being, Diggy was simply wrong, and whatever he said extending from that false premise can’t be granted any real significance.
If we had actually read what he wrote more carefully and followed how problematic (although interesting) his thought process was, we would not see beans he distributed through the dirtied-up lens detractors of the genetics are shoving in our faces, instead, we would be far more attentive to the fact that these were almost uniformly intriguing plants with overwhelmingly good qualities, and that in fact the variegated plants were often among the best of the bunch – hardly symptomatic of a virus, let alone a deleterious one.
I’m not claiming the variegation is a good or a bad thing, and breeding away from it when possible makes sense so as to avoid this kind of kerfuffle. And of course too much variegation could be bad, but the same goes for any other trait – a short variety, with tight internodal spacing. for instance, might have phenos that are too short (Oh no! Could be a virus! Get the torches and pitchforks!).
I don’t care at all about Diggy’s reputation here as he apparently did plenty to earn his OG-RIP status – by all means, hate away, but to trash the 1000’s of beans that were distributed when practically all reports of their performance are glowing is just ridiculous, especially in the face of how transparently flimsy arguments to the contrary are.
To those that are most vocal on the subject, please stop declaring “these seeds are infected!” That level of certainty is as irresponsible as Diggy’s own shenanigans.
Yes! - in addition to just getting our thinking straight, this is why dismissing the 1000’s of WCKash beans on such shaky grounds is such a problem. @firehead’s increase will be a deep contribution to our members and I’ll be in line for some like everyone else, but they are not standing in for the former gene pool - they will be different, and productively so, although doubtless complementary.
As for the fungal pathogen referred to, sure, keep an eye out, but do that regardless of the seed source.
fin
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Could always just get them tested. Then this speculation would be silenced. Don’t see that much of a problem though since there are “clean” Kashmir ascensions.
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Yup - I’ve ordered some TMV tests from Agdia just for gits and shiggles.
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I just wanted to quote anybody that had anything to say about Worcestshire Farms Kashmir to show there is no hating going on. Not here anyway. All I hear is concern and caution. Hate’s a strong word.
Like you pointed out, it was always Diggys own mouth that got him In a pickle.
I’ll continue to err on the side of caution. Too much work invested to take any chance at all.
I recycle my soil. It would be devastating to lose it. Took me 5 years to make it so good.
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The kashmir I grew from the seeds from you were very tall. I topped and bent like crazy.
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Hola Gang
Original Azad grow 8-9 FT
in Qc Canada
Bare
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Indeed, I’ve seen some of those monsters. I have not yet had the pleasure of growing mine outdoors full-season, but this coming spring should let me do that - super excited to see how they go here (Southern Tier NY). I think @Upstate is basically right though, that the controversial line developed here was selected partly to limit stretch, although there remains a lot of phenotypical variability.
I totally get that, there is a lot at stake for sure. My overall aim in the mammoth post above is not to convince any individual to grow or not grow these beans; it’s an appeal to a more evidence-based rational approach to assessing the situation. To that point I have yet to hear any such argument against the line that I find at all convincing, but I am more than persuadable in the face of solidly evaluated evidence, and my guess is that I’m not alone in that, just the most vocal about it at the moment.
So far as the hatred term goes, I can accept there may be some lack of moderation on my part, but I would contend that if he hadn’t been such a dipshit and hurt/betrayed so many of our members there wouldn’t have been this intense backlash against WCKash beans. There is something personal going on here too.
We as a community should have had some of these tested early on for known viroids, but all we can do at this point is perform some now. This affects dozens to hundreds of gardens, so if there is a problem it is far from water under the bridge, and there is no way I’m the only grower with this interest.
Anyway, hoping everyone is enjoying the new year!
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I just don’t want him hearing through the grapevine people hate him. I don’t. I think he exercised some poor judgment but with good intentions. I’d love to have had his Kashmir tested but its not yet been
legal to home grow here. I’ve even thought about tissue culture for these, but It’s about five hundred bucks. I have nothing against any landrace, no matter the source. A pack of seeds could be pulled out of Ted Bundy’s burned and backened ass and if they were rare and landrace, I’d grow them😁. This Kashmir brought me to Overgrow, and I’ll for sure grow it again if @firehead has success. I liked Generic seeds version a little better myself, but the
plants had more sun, so maybe it wasn’t a fair
comparison.
Maybe Diggy has had them tested. 
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Me neither, in fact he was one of our most interesting thinkers and clear writers on the plant we’re all here to discuss, and in my opinion his absence is actually a net loss for OG. I’ve made a point throughout all of this to say nothing about him here that I wouldn’t say directly to him face-to-face - it would be interesting to hear his side of things.
If memory serves, there is a theory that passing a light electrical current through difficult seeds may help with germination, so maybe there is something to this!
Seriously though, I agree the Generic work is exceptionally beautiful - a side-by-side of the various lines would be super interesting.
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Any idea why he was booted?
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I don’t know the whole story or any of it really, but gather there were overtones of trust issues that wore the mods thin - never personally had a bad interaction with him though.
I may be behind catching up on this thread, is the recent discussion talking about the seeds that were distributed from this grow or a different one?
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