so, i will lurk around to find somes
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I did lazy ass hehe!
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Fine. I read it. But only because i like you lol
I think i should expand on my comment here
No matter how good a male (or female) looks to a grower it has no impact on what that particular plant will pass on to its progeny.
You have to perform a test cross or a self cross and grow that new generation to evaluate what is being reliably passed down.
Case in point: when i f2d mosca cherry white, the line was generally vigorous but some females had amazing trichome density and an extremely powerful high. When came time to choose a male, i set a few aside and started to test each against the strong females. First was a male that had the same morphology as the best females. Strong growth and branches, dense flower clusters etc. Its progeny was nothing special. Repeat 3 times. The last male was small, thin
stalk, with a weak stucture. I was about to give up and said f it, why not. I used the small ugly male and progeny was what I wanted.
500 males is 500 recombinations out of a pool of genes.
If, your whole life you had only seen one woman, unchallenged she would be the best.
Now put her against 499 other woman. Can you see some differences?
Maybe you like tall girls with thick hair and green eyes. Will your babies be tall, with a big mane and green eyes? Probably not 
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I lied 
when i said i wouldnt i had already read it haha
I was trying to make him give me the condensed version so we could talk
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lmao, at least you don’t lie to appear less lazzy ^^
I can’t sincerely synthesize the majority of what i’ve to share without fooling the people reading it. I’m in the obligation to fully develop a context most of the time.
Let’s do it point by point, shortly. I will try without being too raw.
Only if it’s the first time that you’re growing the line. But, that’s the problematic to be short, in saying that i’m a fcking hypocrite. If you know your classics and a couple of landraces, you’re never in an unknown ground. Today more than ever, specifically.
It’s mathematically and logistically impossible if you want to get structured results with a genotype. You can launch 100K seeds, you’re not even touching what the genotype have to offer as a whole.
You’re in the obligation to aim, shoot and to assume the shot to the end. There is no other way.
You have made seeds in accumulating a blind notation of random traits to judge a combo of expression. It lead on Pavlovian mirages for the further selections.
You have first a problematic of ratios to solve by a strict method, and to feed with handfull of homemade seeds to waste.
When it’s solved, you have to set and to restrict the spectrum of your search considering your limitations, in specialized rounds (closed by a specific line or not).
Yeah. And we can go to the moon with the length of the human DNA.
Each male is an expression of an answer. If you don’t known the right question of the answer, you have failed. So you have to try again differently and/or more radically the next time.
You’re asking to me how big is the infinite ? Seriously ? ^^
This smoking analogy absolutely don’t work, or have any direct or indirect link with the will to structure a method to generate good cannabis.
I don’t know for you but i’m personnally not eating or smoking my partners. Or considering them as vegetative being, even if sometimes … ^^
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Interesting take…
Smoked them, liked the trichome density and powerful high of female#4
Trichome density and powerful high
Yes, trich…
Btw, 30-50 seeds is considered ample to test progeny. 100k ? Are we ego stroking or mating some plants 
I dont know if you ever grew thousands from seed from a single line, but it gets boring fast. 4750/5000 wont be unique…
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I would point out that yes, you’re not anywhere close to tapping the whole potential of genotypes but meaningful phenotypic variation is unlikely to happen beyond a couple dozen plants.
Just my 2 cents.
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Im not saying the numbers dont exist , im saying you dont have to play every combinaisons to hit the jackpot.
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No, it’s not boring at all. It’s fascinating for me. But i’m no longer in this vein, and young enough also to drive it alone.
I’m playing another game now, more comfy, more chill and more easy.
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Eye of the beholder. The scope of ‘meaningful’ matters a ton and I was intentionally couching my words.
Maybe you want bigger buds, varigation, polyploidy, asymmetry, specific protein-enzyme pathway disruption, whatever. Most of us don’t have access to labs or quantitative assays, nor do we have enough experience watching specific gene pathways play out phenotypically to identify changes, so what most of us consider meaningful is something we detect with our five senses.
Generally, that’s what I’d consider meaningful.
Others would disagree. And that’s okay.
As for how many genes are for what you want, without labs and assays it’s hard to tell quickly. You have to take it the old fashion way via Mendelian genetics, recording phenotype frequencies, inbreeding, back-crossing, and statistical analysis (Hardy-Weinberg analysis, etc.) to determine the locations of trait-related alleles on a chromosome (loci), their relative distances, dominance behaviors, etc. If that’s the route you take, you’ll need to grow at a big scale. Or you need to have access to research, a good background in plant biology and genetics, and lab resources.
We can’t discount the role of random mutation, but if we’re pheno-hunting for a known trait, the odds that random mutation are going to influence the genes responsible for the pheno you’re hunting and produce a viable, fertile adult and have the desired effect are incredibly small. Not impossible, just small and hard to reproduce in gametes.
In my opinion, without significant time and resources, you’re better off working up a dozen plants and looking for major pheno differences. That’ll give you a rough idea of what phenotypes of progeny might have that influence you desire on the plant. Now that doesn’t account for making your progeny a true breeding strain, but it gets all the genes you want concentrated on one plant. Do that process a few times, pray that making an IBL doesn’t mess with the dominance of genes collected along the way (messing up epistatic effects, screwing up codominance, etc.) and that’s about all the amateur can do.
Don’t trust me though I’m an egghead lol.
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Qualitative traits vs quantitative traits are also important when thinking about the genetic potential of a gene pool. I really appreciate your input. I have very similar feelings
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Dr. Raphael Mechoulam passed yesterday at the age of 92.
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For the Hardy-Weinberg equilibrium, you can’t use it to determine anything. It’s a statistical tool that is lifting the genetic dynamic to the bone, it’s just to understand how to don’t piss against the wind ^^ In practice, it can’t be applied because its weakness with all exogenous factors. In starting by the will to create a strain and the goal attached to it. Just with that, the model is broken. In being very tolerant (in avoiding animals, insect, humans, meteo phenomenons) you can eventually consider it with untouched indigenous crops but to build directly something with that is like using a hammer to tight a screw.
On epistatic effects, i’ve multiple opinions. Sometimes ambivalents.
Is it, finally and after all, not the main source of exceptional specimens generated by the stoners ? Why not.
Or maybe the lack of consideration for this dynamic is why so much people throw the concept of “mechanical depression” for the technic of inbreeding ?
And more vicious, is it solely possible to have a breeding strategy drived by an human hand that insure a full epistatic neutrality.
Or, considering the blueprint of the majority of strains today, can we really consider that we are speaking about a “breeding true” strains and not just a dominance inside a common genotype ? ^^
It don’t change the fact that if you’re not able to recognize the structure of a Skunk in an hybrid, all the extra space you can get will just increase the time you will take to understand that you’re watching a skunk reminiscence.
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Again, fair, it was the only genetics-related statistical tool I could think of off the top of my head lol
You could theoretically introduce a phenotype to a population of wild types through several generations to reach equilibrium to draw some conclusions about dominance and population penetrante but ultimately under the one-gene-two-allele-simple-dominance model, which is the only context I know applied in, it ain’t that useful for getting a stable mother.
Not a geneticist, all I got is pissin in the wind. At least I’m high while I do it 
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So there is more than one way to develop a true breeding strain. A second method is by creating a completely new strain instead of working hybrids.
When you are creating a new “true breeding” strain, you can craft it out of composite parts! Say for instance you have several different strain you have breed for a specific purpose. One effects plant structure, the other size how much resin, content of resin, flavor, smell etc. You could literally have hundreds of strain that will pass on only a single dominant trait.
By combining these into a strain of your choice, the line is already half worked…within a few generations a new true breeding strain is made. The limited amount of input genetics plus the dominance of each trait in the cross makes the homogenization process simple and straightforward. Because only a few trait are expressed the line is quickly true breeding. 
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The genetic potential of Marijuana is limitless…genetic theory actually suggest that Rosids, the clade Marijuana is in, is actually mislabeled and that the entire clade should be Cannabaceae. The inference being that the plants descended from actual “prehistoric” Marijuana and not prehistoric roses !!! Food for thought when you consider that apples, grapes, almonds, figs etc all come from Marijuana, WOW!!! 
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One of the more quoted among us too, with the punnet square.
By the way the case you’re describing can work i think if the injection is based on a timeline, not a one shot. But yes, only to know the direction of the wind and with a pretty much heavy work ^^
Holly shit ^^ Just amen lol
These damned old seeds have given all they can i think, i will sow tomorrow. Just in watching the lazzy roots in the humic acid i known by advance that i will suffer to make them something decent. But, they are not even supposed to be alive. I’ve to be tolerant. Just to say that soon i will be less bored.
In reading my posts, some of you will maybe land in my new growlog and get a shock. No warehouse, no hundred of plants and a dozen of fucked jack trying to survive. It’s gonna be epic. I kill the time in waiting an order of sensi seeds, marketing will be better after ^^
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Damn that’s news to me! Cool.
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Yes but that type is something to hang onto! The ability to self it is there but with the possibility of Apomixis anything is possible. @Fuel
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