Continuing discussion from: Greenpoint Seeds - #2500 by Cannavore
It’s a age old question ,once a breeder releases strains and someone else uses it in their own breeding is that wrong,it seems it’s only wrong when that breeder does great things with it and peeps rave about it and others get butt hurt
Yeah man, I’m always team JJ, but that male was a good one, and I’m also for getting the best and most outstanding plants circulating. So I hope Gu really does still have it. The smell and flavor is what I’d keep it around for. Potency sure, but that super chemical taste and nose it passed on is something to keep. I think there’s a lot of guys like me, who really like that sort of thing, and it definitely had it.
i dig JJ,one of the pioneers of the chemdog in breeding,just was way to difficult to ever score any of his strains,GU is a marketing wizard and saw it and took the chance,i dont know what is happening with greenpoint these days,never got into the cookies mixes ,each to their own
Its fine for people to use a Male or Female to make seeds from seeds you bought, BUT at least credit where that came from, especially if you blow up with it and dont even mention said person. ( im not answering about this thread just the comment i see kaneboy said , i not read thia thread)
To many people leave out the name of the Original seedmaker once they blow up , and some even rewrite the story in his/her favour.
Thats with clones, new seed company’s made from it etc etc etc
You are a breeder. These less experienced folks are merely sprayers.
You have genetics you’ve worked with for decades. They have (untested) genetics they just bought last week from a guy on Discord.
To me it’s not an “owning of” the genetics, it’s a respect for the genetics and who’s shoulders you are truly standing upon. The thing is…they don’t know where their genetics came from to say. Nor do they care. They are already onto the hunt for the next purchased cut. You are on the hunt for a special specimen from/within the genetics you’ve had in house for decades.
Huge differences across the board.
My question is “how far can all of this truly go?” It’s crazy to go to Seedfinder and look at the (supposed) lineage of some of these strains. Fuckin’ list is a mile long. And folks are calling shit “F-1” and other breeder-related terms when they have no clue what it truly means. They are all about 30 fucking poly-poly-poly-poly crossings past that designation by now. (unless this old guy never really understood any of it. That could be the case too)
They have found a niche’ though. So has WalMart. 
be well Sir. >Respect<
What if they come from a seller that doesn’t know where they came from and wasn’t or may not have been the breeder? Call it a mystery mix from someone like North Atlantic Seed Company from beans spilled on the floor. Should the retailer be given credit?
Just ask, some might want different degrees of credit. A shout out is nice and good enough for me. But once you’ve crossed them with something they are yours. At least I think so.
In a personal sense I totally agree with you. You buy em…and they are yours to do with as you please.
Where it changes, IMO, is when you set up shop and start retailing wares of crosses to the public using other people’s work. @ that point ethics step in and you either credit folks or you rename it/claim it and muddy (shit) in the pond. Lineage lost.
Beyond that, the lack of true >selection< also comes into play. The guys who >work the lines< through generations of plants use selection as their guide. Selection to enhance/minimize certain traits…furthering the line as a whole.
The guys >just crossing< (spraying these days) a lone, highly popular plant they bought to make yet another series of 10 crosses using the SAME plants are not furthering the lines, IMO. Ditto that with the home grower who grows a few seeds from a pack and then makes crosses. I get the jist. Sharing is awesome. However, it still muddies up the pool, IMO. Your best plant from 3 plants isn’t gonna be as good as the guy who ran 300 plants.
That’s how I see it anyway. Fuckin’ old people 
I take your point. But we all stand on the shoulders of giants.
Yes once you dont the x then it’s yours , but whenever mentioning where your Original ( clone, seed pack whatever a mention of where your original work was based of is expected ?)
Some guys dont mention you at all on initial x , then make x’s with that and whatever with ZERO mention at all EVER in existence ? That is not cool at all in my opinion.
To me even a small guy should mention the lineage ( not asking for a shout out ever ) just this x = a x b from here ?
I have worked with lots of great gear from a lot of great and talented people.
I’ve asked how, and if, they would like to be credited. Some don’t care.
If you’re in the selling game I expect the dynamics are quite different but I’m just happy and proud to have my work in other people’s gardens.
I totally agree with you on that. I always say whos seeds im running especially people from here. Im just a small guy too, its a respect thing for me. Its basically saying thnx for your work in making said seeds
Yeah but did any EVER say dont mention me, no.
So its courtesy for those who want recognition for there blood,sweat tears put in , especially people still working in non legal/states countries, its defo alot harder.
I dream of what i could achieve with a legal place to grow/Produce seeds.
Im half blessed with seeds are 100% legal in the UK, but im not allowed to produce them, just allowed to sell them
Great point there with people doing this in non legal places. They def deserve the credit especially risking their freedom.
Sharing the success is a basic rule learnt on the ground, it’s always harvesting more at the end. Calling it ethics i don’t know, maybe it’s a bit pushy.
But i don’t know, at least to let the stoners know what kind of weed they are really buying ^^ At least lmao
In real life, if you were standing on a giant’s shoulders and disrespected him, you’d be a bloody mess on the ground in an instant.
This isn’t real life though. Folks can get away with not crediting others while standing on the same shoulders from afar. 
“Hemp” seeds are “legal” here in the US to sell/send in the mail but very few of these “breeders” are legally producing these “Hemp” seeds because the seeds are contained within high THC mother plants. They are not Hemp. It’s all a big game. So big they can’t control it anymore.
As far as seed sales, legality may be a plus for awhile. (until everyone uses your wares to make 6 million seeds ) As far as weed sales, it screwed the pooch for most folks who once had a place at the table here. You aren’t going to jail but you aren’t siting @ home making 10K a month either.
Sadly…like everything else…it’s all on its way to being “corporate” and watered down. Without these cats working the lines and preserving the genetics that are the foundation of it all…someday all there will be to smoke is “the best from what that guy grew, whatever it was”. 
I have to say that in my opinion, once you sold/gave the seeds to somebody, you are giving up custody from most things involving them.
To give Gu credit, what he did was start the “harem” chucking approach by finding a good male and then hitting all the dispo cuts he could muster. It is what it is. Selling crosses is imo, in bounds. Where I would find fault is if that Stardawg was S1’d and sold all over the place. (and that happens to other things @ GP) The guy got a good male and a great idea. JJ coulda done it too, but he didn’t. All the other Greenpoint related shennanigans aside, I think he paid his nickel and took his chances and did ok.
As for whether the Stardawg male still exists, and I mean “THE” SD male, take a look at the current GP offerings. There are 5 stardawg crosses. That should give us a hint about if it still exists or not. I vote not, fwiw.
Once it goes federally legal here it’ll be like apples, roses, and so on. Just because you bought the plant or got some seeds, doesn’t mean you can do anything with those plants besides grow them in your yard for your own pleasure. Welcome to capitalism. The illegality of the plant has allowed it to live on the outside of things for awhile, but that time is nearing its end and just like everything else, the big companies and people with money will own most of it and you won’t be doing whatever you’d like with their seeds or genetics without legal repercussions.
Yeah I think you’re right man that’s why I’m just a proponent of decriminalization… Allowing people to grow and use the plant without going to jail for victimless crimes. Obviously rescheduling it for medicinal use is part of that but overall don’t see a lot of great benefits from legalization.