You guys do a great job. I don’t want to get in the way. 
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We’ve all very clearly stated that this is not our area of expertise. Maybe instead of shitting on the attempt, add something to the conversation.
We would love to hear it
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My apologies,
It was not my attempt to shit on the thread, and my response was in direct response to Ryasco. The message was, don’t take all of the terminology used and focus on that. Just get out there and do it. Like everything else there is a lot of trial and error, and don’t settle for just ok. Dare to be different.
Some things can only be taught by experience, and the only way to gain that is by doing it and taking notes. Traits I breed towards I am sure are different from traits someone else breeds for and even that changes as the next strain is being created.
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It is as simple or as complex as you like. You can watch all the videos, learn all the words, and approach it with a very scientific mindset.
Or.
You can find two plants you like and cross them, then get two plants you like from their kids and cross them.
Rinse, repeat.
If what you like remains fairly stable then you eventually will find most of the plants you grow end up very similar. Keep breeding the ones most like the ones you want and when over 95% of your seeds produce plants pretty much the same you have created your own stable line.
Now find two more plants from different stock and do the same (can be done parallel to the first line)
In an ideal world all four grandparent plants came from very different breeding lines and had different characteristics that you liked.
When you have two stable lines, cross them and you will have your own F1 seeds. These will be very homogeneous and vigorous. Now comes finding which plants produce the best cross from your stable lines. You will find some cross well with any partner, and some cross very well with a specific partner. You will be looking for offspring that carry many of the traits from all four ‘grandparents’.
No fancy words, or punnet squares (although that is about as simple as it gets), or knowledge of more than ‘what you like’.
I feel @LED_Seedz followed the second route which will produce plants just as good as any other method. Hell, it gave us pretty much everything we ate or wore for hundreds of years…
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No apologies necessary. I just know that you’re a wealth of knowledge and a tough nut to crack. It wasn’t my intention to come off so abrasive. it’s all love brother
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Now that’s the mature exchange of important perspectives that keeps me loyal to OG! Bravo! Thank you @Worcestershire_Farms, @MicroDoser, @LED_Seedz . Much love and respect…
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This is probably one of my favorite threads man!
This is all the info one needs to get a start on making their own strain.
With the variety in this plant we could all each have our signature cultivar, true breeding and all.
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Adding to and bookmarking this thread, but I love the truth and personal evolution that OG promotes!!!
For those looking to really dig into genetics breeding you should start out with the understanding that almost all of what we’re growing and breeding with are not F1’s & not polyhybrids, but are actually multi-polyhybrids. This definitely complicates things, but not so much that we can’t still figure them out and stabilize them.
Sometimes we cross 2 strains and in their offspring generation we find out that the desired trait is recessive, but we only get dominant phenotypes and then in F2, we discover that we’re still stuck with those same dominant phenotypes.
Most people assume that F2 brings about 75% Dominant and 25% recessive. This is often believed to work in all F2’s because of Mendel genetics “face value” teaching. However they forget that Mendel used a 100% stable Purple flower (P1) crossed to a 100% stable white flower (P2) which is then cultivated in very large numbers through each filial generation.
Focusing only on the F2 generation we would get these results:
Pp x Pp (Big P is Dominant and p is recessive desired phenotype).
We get PP, Pp, Pp, pp with this combination, everywhere there is a big P the cross will have Dominant phenotype, in this case green buds. 75% green and 25% purple.
Mendel genetics states:
- P1+P2=F1 (filial cross)
- F1=mostly Dominant traits
- F1+F1=F2 is where recessive genes show.
- So you can think F1= 100% Green, F2= 75% Green and 25% Purple
However with a collection of F2 plants showing only the Dominant phenotype of Green the issue can become more complex. The most time conserving way to deal with this issue is to grow more F2 generation seeds until you find a purple one. However, sometimes that isn’t possible, because of a shortage of F2 seeds or lack of the needed space for larger plant sifting, and so further generations of plants will need to be bred in order to find the purple phenotype. There are 3 potential beginning genotype combinations we could be starting with in the F2 generation:
PP x PP, Pp x Pp, or PP x Pp
P = Green buds, p= Purple buds
Combinations of this will be PP, Pp, pp
100% Dominant traits P= Green in 11 of 12 plants with purple only appearing in one plant.
So, P1+P2=F1, then F1+F1=F2 would be unlikely to create the desired purple in a low number of plants in this situation, contrary to the way it did in Mendel’s project.
Here is the solution to this problem:
P1 (Green) +P2 (Purple)=F1
F1+P2 (Purple)=Bc1
Bc1+F1=F2
F2+F2=F3
PP (P1) +pp (P2) = Pp,Pp,Pp,Pp (F1)
Pp (F1) + pp (P2) = Pp,Pp,pp,pp (Bc1) 50% purple phenotypes
pp (Bc1) + pp (Bc1) = pp, pp, pp, pp (F2) 100% purple phenotypes
This combination works with the advantage of higher recessive phenotype presence throughout the process while just seeking out Purple plants on a singular basis.
point out any mistakes you see
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I have been involved with breeding most of my life, from Dobermans in the late 70’s to Sheppard and Rottweiler to the American PitBull Terrier - True Game Bred Dogs unlike the generic Bull Breed Mixes commonly called Pit-Bull under this umbrella term. After learning from the most diverse highbred dog (American Pit Bull Terrier) and seeing with my own eyes how the different types either became mixes or just the dominate line of the parent stock I began seeing just how the natural world works.
In the 90’s I was studying under a great professor who was the leading Biologist in the area at the time and with him I began breeding Reptiles, from the common to the exotics and the morphed lines. I also worked with the preservation aspects of certain rarer boas and pythons while the original breeders travels took them worldwide with the quest of the taxonomy of the world’s pythons and Boa Constrictors. And let me say this, I learned a lot more than I expected which was applied to the understanding I have of this plants nature and how it works in the aspects of combining as well as the way true breeding lines being dominate most times. With this said there’s many lines out there that have been renamed, shuffled and yet it continues. So I’m gonna have to say that the majority of the poly x poly is not really a hybrid by scientific terminology. Instead these are mutts, but they have their place in today’s world.
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As well it should be noted that the f4-f5 with the mutts often just leads to even more expressions.
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Great Stuff @Sebring! It will take a place of honor in oleskool’s Big Red Book of Aquired Knowledge! Congratulations
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