this Line is extinct, its Vietnamese, what else… lol those are the only pics left
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I will have to think about this. Crazy riddle! Thank you 
I’m a ways back in the thread. Regarding resin and plant defense. All trip weed comes from the tropics where resin also defends against tropical strength sunshine 
that seems to be one constant among all trip weed
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@romanoweed id like to take a stroll with a pair of scissors past those wild plants. They don’t look hempy at all.
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A bit of why im doing this Thread
Look People, hey hey
Listen to this
Before i opened this Thread, i have opened already 3 Others with the same Subject: how to preserve Landraces.
It was a bit frustrating how few People came with Ideas what to do and why.
Most people would rather talk about Observations, or whatever,… didnt help me further.
After quiet a while one Guy anwsered me very well. A professional Breeder. He told me that selection is a Key element i need to learn about. He told me that if one doesent select it reverts back to wild, but in the same Time he aknowledged "some People like a little less selective Pressure " . Even tho he himselve likes strong selection . So you know, i gained alot Trust in this Guy.
I had now my first Idea what is an important factor.
I remebered also this Anektote "our Plants did evolve trough centuries of selection (the Example with small wild Strawberry VS big consumer Strawberry). Wich i heard in primary School, and its visible if you watch a Strawberry , right.
So, there was a evidence that those Guys are truthful.
So, if i combine that with my specualtion, that Landraces are just not as strong selected , as all those “Mendel Law Freaks” told me to do (they advised me to just select one single Plant to make the next generation), then it felt right…
So i thought, yes, Landraces are selected, but just not as strong … I got my first Hint how landraces were made . And it matched with what Realseedcompany (he is RATHER a “open Pollination” Freak) said, that Landraces arent wild, they are domesticated.
So, i had this feeling there must be adaption happening … I reasoned long Time in my 3 Threads… I asked two Biologists , most of them dont wanna anwser… Imagine how rare one comes about a Biolost even…
So just lately i had to ask this guy "are you kind of into Biology? " . he anwsered yes… So, it was me that had to take this opportunity and ask him out.
To my enjoyment he knew something about “Adaption”.
It was on me once again to pull anwsers out of him, haha. I know they dont alwaays have the time … So i finally found this "Terroir " Term to describe Adaption.
So it was me who thought: lets put out a compleete “how to preserve Landrace right” Thread.
So, there we are. i tried to as short and precise make you Peoples clear what Method will lead to the most accuratly “Copied” Landrace Seed.
This thread, also this post is not to prole, but i think i needed to explain a bit how much Time went into finding these rather “boring” Explonations. I needed to explain that this Info didnt just fly by. I had to ask so endless times…
Also those Anektotes from Marocco, Vietnam, per example… I had to ask the person that apperantly knew a bit more, for how they did their Seedruns at Origin, and he didnt want to reply … So i went trough boring work. And you may not see this when im just listing up my knowledge .
So, the main Purpose of this Thread is to compile all my Knowlededge as short and understandable to everyone who may-or-may-not have a Landrace, so he can get an exact “how to preserve Landraces” anwser.
The two things missing are a “how to change our Terroir” Instruction, the evidence was presented in Video, i hope i can manage to get this together.
And also a “how to store Seeds longterm” ,
wich will help to let your Seeds as unchanged as can be. (The lesser one reproduces, the lesser Change, right?)
And i didnt mean to complain about the others Comments, it was absolutely a justified Theory that Plants “steer” the surronding Animals and Insects (Studies suggest that) , but it was just gooing so much into Detail, and my Goal is to try and find “how to do it” Anwsers …You know…
The outlook having to even inject Animals into a Growroom… its absolutely unachievable and unaffordable for you and me. 
even tho it IS/or was part that shaped Landraces.
Observations, and theories are welcome, i just wanted to say: we need to end up with a “how to”. Thats my Goal.
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It seems to me there are several requirements for trip weed. Tropical sunshine and elevation seem to be two of them. A third one that goes along with elevation would be large day night temperature swings. This has been proven to increase potency and resin production. Perhaps a combination of all three along with some other unknown factor are at play
@Blu-Tri it will take a few more tokes to get you where you want to be compared to a hybrid, but that Oaxaca will put you where you want to be every time
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Of course one major difference with landrace populations even those that are selected, is that there are such large numbers these selections don’t lead to inbreeding depression. There is most likely always some foreign pollen floating about that helps to reinvigorate isolated populations. I’m also very interested in long-term Health of land race populations on a small scale and if I was able to do so today, this is what I would do. 10 people have the same Landrace. Each of the 10 people practice is very limited selection, only getting rid of inferior plants or those that don’t fit the description of the landrace. Every 5 Generations, each of these 10 people give us some seeds to one of the 10 for an open pollination with as many plants as possible. The seeds are then passed out to the same 10 people. After this is done several times , I would repeat the same thing but with all the different generations representative. There are two things that create hybrid vigor. Out Crossing and back Crossing and both should be utilized.
Furthermore more people need to do like I have done and track down people that live in the country of origin and get them to do our landrace reproductions. Only in this manner can we avoid changes that are bound to occur when plants are growing indoors away from their Homeland.
I found a guy online that knows two friends in Oaxaca and I am sending him seed this week for him to send to them. We have @Panamajock growing double Panama down in Panama, and once I reproduce the 1974 Panama, I will sending him seeds so he can do a reproduction in Panama.
Then we have @Gugemelo growing Brazilian in Brazil, and growing Paraguay at the same latitude it is from. Someday I Envision a very large worldwide collective.
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Yeah Inbreeding Depression i also wanna list here.
(this concerns not the percentage of Culling/Keepers but the total Amount )
Yes small numbers of Plants seem to lead into inbreeding Depression. Sometimes people dont think ahead when they select down to a single 1 to 1 Mating… cause after x generations the Depression may show, thats what i believe (no proove yet)
You need insane Numbers to avoid Inbreeding Depression, i assume 2000 Plants…
And we are limited, thats why i will insert a “how to store Seeds for prolonged Time” later.
we will do just as best as we can, be wise, compromise.
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there will probably be stray pollen, so i shurely wont place my 70s superior Landrace into a Region of 2020 Landrace wich is troughout worse . MY OPPINION
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Give repro seeds to remote small time growers, not cartels or growers of fields. People like us will suffice. It’s easy to tell if there is unwanted pollen around before anything important gets run because nearly everyone runs seedless. They will know if there are issues.
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I agree small numbers of plants can lead to inbreeding depression but enough dedicated people growing small isolated populations can avoid this by periodically swapping seeds. I really think the 2000 plant number can be heavily tweaked. Let’s say for example i have only 10 plants and seeing all plants are satisfactory i let them open pollinate. The Following year i grow 2000 plants from these seeds. Are there only 10 expressions among these 2000? No, of course not. There are many more than 10, and every generation mother nature will guide the making of countless new mutations (expressions) down the line given the plant numbers needed. I’m not suggesting we stop collecting after attaining 10 seeds, just saying its not a hopeless prospect to think you might be doing some good by collecting only 10.
It depends where the seeds came from too. I’m assuming these 10 plants were grown from landrace seeds collected in the country of origin here and not 10 highly inbred seeds which would be different.
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@Upstate theoretically and principially Good Idea! / Practically its difficult
if you really know someone that grew Seedless without finding acidental Seeds in Buds, you are of corse imitating Soil perfectly that way.
There may be Situations where your Idea isnt feasible, Vietnam per example… puh, they are checking your Post well there. And the laws are very unhuman. Also one would always remain unshure if exactly that year a new “stray Pollen” occured.
Who knows , maybe in a couple Decades the Pollenfree Area has vanished…
In general: Landraces are disapearing and changing from their initial Form imho. Stray pollen, no boeno
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Slow going meeting the right people but its forward progress. Like us they usually know other growers and most likely will get one or more of them enthused about preservation. I’m hoping anyway.
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Following video is about Mountagnards advanced Growing. —Terroir.
Again many sources pointed out that the strongest Vietnamese Cannabis came from Mountagnards around Dalat. The studies in the Video are about Central Highlands Mountagnards, wich isnt thaat far away from Dalat, but they may or may have similar practises:
They did fertilize soil alot, had very advanced knowledge in general about sustainability , and didnt turn the upper Soil layer, and after fertilisation they left the spot for years to later come back when its ready ?
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An Explonation by Someone else about Inbreeding Deression:
quote: keeping it very simple, each time a cell multiplies the dna is copied. if you imagine dna like a recipe book, you can imagine the copying sort of like how books used to be copied by monks: the copying is not a perfect process, sometimes errors are made.
however, most of those typo’s have no effect at all for various reasons(for example, the location of the change is important. also, the genetic code is basically coded in triplets/‘words’ of ‘letters’, or basepairs, with 4 different possible ‘letters’. however some triplets are synonymous, so you could have a change of 1 letter that still results in the same code/recipe, because the new triplet has the same ‘meaning’ as the old triplet). (there are btw also some other kinds of changes that are not just 1 letter switched, but that goes a bit deeper into genetics)
then, if the change does have an effect, it can still be a very subtle or invisible effect.
if however the change does result in a new meaning, and it is inside a gene which is somewhat important, you could see an effect of it.
however, most of the time such a change inside a gene that has a noticable effect would result in breaking the gene. since chromosomes come in pairs, that broken gene would get compensated by the 2nd non-broken copy, and you would not see the mutation. in other words, you’d have a recessive trait. (sometimes however the dosage matters, in that case you can see the difference between 1 working copy or 2 workin copies. but very often 1 working copy is enough for the full functioning)
in a naturally outcrossing species like weed(or humans), most of the time an individual will mate with an unrelated individual, so the chance that both parents happen to have a mutation in the same gene is pretty rare.
however, all those recessive mutations are still there, just not noticable since they are compensated by the other non-broken version. and since, as long as you keep outbreeding, they stay invisible, there’s also no selection pressure to remove those mutations, so they could accumulate in the background. however it also means that inbreeding depression is a somewhat heritable trait that you can select against, since if you do inbreeding you can select against the negative mutations and basically ‘clean up’ those recessive mutations from the background making the line/strain more resistant against inbreeding problems.
then if you start inbreeding, those mutations that were already present in the background may become visible, since now both parents are related, so there is a chance that the child gets a broken version of the same gene from both parents.
quote
I wanna add my own Thoughts: Of corse you dont need to Outcross, cause the more Individuals you have, the more unrelated the genes are. And therefore you “erase” more Mutations the bigger your poulation is. I mean otherwise Landraces would have to be as Polihybrid as our Strains to stay healthy, And wether or not some Landra are slightly outcrossed, i dont think the amount outcrossing is as heavy …
Peace.
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Based off this statement than do you believe, and to start this question off I’ll state that I agree. That moving a landrace to a different environment would over time change not only it’s adaptation to environment but also the very high it gives you?
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I principially dont believe. I research, asked biologists, kind talking breeders, and list it,
Puh, i assume that some of those findings might be pretty true. ?
All i wanted is to list the things i regard as most important and most “plausible” and have shown in observations multiple times.
Effect changes
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Can anybody comment on how many phenos should be found within a given landrace population?
How does one determine what is that threshold? When going beyond that #, are we to say that a line is hybridized?
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Like oats (Avena sativa) and rice (Oryza sativa). It’s interesting to note that ever member of the species Cannabis sativa has felt the influence of human intervention (domestication).
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Well, i heard that a Member of the Vibes Collective is a schooled biologist, and he found out that inbreeding depression happend when reproducing his Jamaican Lambsbread. —
So he decided to do an ultra high numbered Seedrun with 2000 Plants, in multiple ettapes.
He said he only managed to do a 1000-
But he said 2000 would have been needed for reproducing one Generation without inbreeding depro.
Im not shure if he even knows exact how many are needed. 2000 Plants are a Number thats floating around since a while. Sam Skunkman says 2000 Plants allow for every genetic combination , or something.
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