My understanding is they all reverse.
Could be at different sts concentration, different application frequency, “other” “contributing” “factors” but reverse they do.
If indeed it is hormonal, there is no reason a plant wouldn’t reverse.
Cuts famously hermie prone is hard to reverse, cmon now.
Thanks for stopping in @Mithridate 
It is always good to hear your opinion on things, you are a good head to bounce things off.
I think STS may work different than using Gibb. aka GA due to it not being a stress inducer like STS is, at least I am pretty sure it works on different pathways ect.
Interesting, I have heard several people say they found plants that would not reverse.
I had issues with a plant not wanting to reverse last year but that could have been user error.
Also with STS too much or too little can cause issues with viable and collectable pollen.
For example some balls you have to break open and use ultra-sonic to harvest the pollen ect.
This is what I am afraid of…they all may turn, but we may not know until we try.
This idea kinda started while conversing about looking for the fabled YY super male.
What we were thinking was …if the female genes are absent then you would find the YY males that did not reverse.
They would not express as female because the X chromosome/gene is absent.
Then we thought…this may work the other way around.
I hope I explained things properly… 
Sure intersex prone cultivars would turn easy, more stable cultivars would be harder, maybe we could find some that don’t wanna turn.
Or maybe we can just bump the hormone levels enough to have all those easy ladies turn and leave the more stable ladies to be gone through further at a later date.
Dunno really… 
We are up for any suggestions and if you think we are being foolish we are happy to hear that too. 
Both @Cactus and I are very open to hearing any and all ideas on this topic.
We are just trying to find our way through the fog and maybe we stumble upon something helpful on the way.
STS, or rather the silver ions in STS, is an ethylene biosynthesis inhibitor. Ethylene biosynthesis is a primary driver in female flower production. Without the ethylene biosynthesis, the plants will usually produce stamenate floral expression. Generally you will nearly always see stamenate floral expression in cannabis plants that have had ethylene biosynthesis inhibited through silver ion introduction, however, it is somewhat common for there to be no production of pollen, or pollen that will not fertilize pistillate flowers.
There are cuts that “we know” are hard to reverse or collect viable pollen from, then the solution is to find someone who doesn’t know 
Thing is, this reversal subject been talked about from every angle but we all do the same thing, and report the same thing.
Case in point, on an obscure forum visited by thousands, one old timer shared his tricks years and years ago.
When one well known breeder encountered the gal won’t flip “problem” I offered pointers and was talked to like I was retarded.
Mr breeder trashed the plant, and proclaimed to all who wanted to hear “it is true, this gal does not reverse!”
ZZZ 
Any plant can be reversed. It’s a matter of getting the proper amount of ethylene biosynthesis inhibition because even genetically male plants will produce some amount of ethylene as it is useful for other growth purposes in plants beyond pistillate floral expression.
I’ve also found that following advise on a forum when you cannot accomplish something with what are considered standard techniques cannot make the matter any worse than it already is with regards to the goal. At worse, you are no closer to accomplish your goal than you were before you tried what was recommeded, and you were already at the worst case scenario before you gave ti a shot.
Here is the quote from OO
STS on the other hand, according to the latest findings, blocks copper channels (and does not inhibit ethylene production per se nor directly blocks ethylene perception). Anyway, a lack of copper (needed for ethylene synthesis) leads to a lower ethylene production. Ethylene is at least one reason why auxins cause ‘femaleness’ (remember, auxins lead to increased ethylene production) and ethylene acts, at least in this regard, as GA antagonist. Again, a shift in hormonal equilibrium causes sex reversal. Consequently, one would have to call STS a form of nutrient (copper) starvation. By definition, nutrient starvation is also a form of stress. Hence, STS is stress induced sex reversal and will select for intersex plants [image] . That last sentence, ICMag users know that by experience, seems not true although I know many who think it is.
Bottom line is: If you ‘believe’ STS a safe method, then root pruning is so too. If you don’t like STS, don’t prune roots either.
Several mainly German speaking breeders such as Serious and Alpine Seeds believe that treating plants with STS WILL induce hermaphroditism in cannabis. This, as for example Simon points out, is based on vast experience and due to heavy metal intoxication, disturbed hormonal homoeostasis, and epigenetic changes which ultimately lead to genetic aberrations…
In contrary, ‘natural’ means of sex reversal won’t show this behaviour.
Well, I see your point here but I think I just reported something new…
@Mithridate what are your thoughts on the quote above?
Ok, fair enough.
Link:
Regulation of cytokinin biosynthesis, compartmentalization and translocation
Funny I wonder what the mechanism in the plant that indicates that it is time to transform or differentiate? I always look at the branching and as long as the nodes or same level then still juvenile and then the stagger step and you have a plant that is ready to transform? Might have to get to the root of the problem 
No problems brother just solutions!
Something to consider is… the plants have some cytokinin reserve and that needs to be used up before you go into flowering. Else, the hormones will turn the flower primordia into female ones. I’d switch after a week of cutting roots
If cutting the roots causes an imbalance in hormone homoeostasis in favor of gibberellins and STS blocks ethelene (more or less) and causes an imbalance in hormone homoeostasis in favor of gibberellins, exogenous gibberelin application causes an imbalance in hormone homoeostasis in favor of gibberellins as well…one would think they are all just different paths to the same place, unfortunatly organic chemistry never seems to be that easy.
Some questions I have are… are they exactly the same and are the end results exactly the same?
They all seem to change the hormone ratio in favor of gibberelin but have unique ways of getting there.
Some may say GA will cause more intersex traits than STS.
Why would that be?
Does GA cause more stress than STS?
Does GA cause gene mutations?
If the level of stress induced can really increase intersex traits then root pruning being a more natural way may infact cause less intersex traits.
This is all spitballing, organic chemistry is not really my thing, I try but it runs deep 
…LOL
Great question, you brought up about pathways being different and different mechanisms being possibly inactivated or their process of suppressing the expression of something is turned off or lessened?
Looking at the paper again why does 6-BAP convert all of them to either being female or intersex and no males were detected? That to me, seems like the pathway is more sensitive to becoming female or less stable male and more plastic? Chemist? No way brother, don’t have the patience other than following the directions like when baking brownies!
This could be like @Mithridate said…they will all turn/change sex.
@Mithridate …what do you think about this?
@Cactus has proposed that there could be an X chomosome that remains undecided, it could turn to X or may change to Y depending on it’s mood.
That is a very simple way to say it, and I may have said it wrong but I tried to do it in my own words, so take that for what it is worth…please. 
@GYOweed
I wanted you to engage further in this conversation.
I know you have done quite a bit with BAP, maybe more than anyone here.
Have you noticed that when using BAP on seedlings you tend to get less males?
That is what I have noticed.
Someone earlier I think it was @Northern_Loki ??..asked if plants would revert after the hormones wore off so to speak.
My experience with seeds is… the plants do not revert back to male or intersex.
But this also may have to do with their age when treated with BAP.
Treated plants that are much older most likely would revert/change back to what they were originally.
Same with root trimmed plants they would turn back also.
Tip:
Cytokinin can be used at the seedling stage for a type of feminizer.
More research needs to be done but my tests, while mostly anecdotal were this was a good tool to increase the chances of your seeds becoming female.
I never experienced intersex traits from this method either.
I am not saying this could not mask intersex traits because it could and they could show up later in the seeds but that has not been my experience.
When coupled with colchicine, another thing to don’t manage in the kitchen.
But it’s a drift of the initial conversation.
It’s important a this point also to differentiate the sex expression itself :
I can’t list them all … but it’s difficult to speak about direct consequences and causes. It’s a bit more vicious and rely at 100% on the previous selection.
A lot more yes, but it’s a biased sight. The STS solution used to make homegrown fems isn’t really the one you use in production to feed the fem’s junkies. The price also, it’s not just STS but a cocktail to compensate the side effects and to don’t waste weeks for recovery. Because you just can’t afford it in term of time and costs.
So there is a cheap STS that can be done everywhere for a ridiculous cost, and the formulas sold around an half K for 2 liters (1a, 1b) that you can barely feel or even see for some, in your timing.
Stress just can reveal a latent case, not to induce and print hermaphrodism. DNA is the hard-coded answer, not the question submitted to the plant. Another vicious equation to deal with.
An early plant that can’t grow root, or with a root mass that rot, is something covered. But suddenly losing his roots this way from an healthy state isn’t really a natural epigenetic factor. It’s too fast and brutal, and actually is strictly the same than cloning a plant. The difference being that instead a chunk of secondary, you use the whole trunk.
For this simple consideration, i’m shared and neutral. The process is brutal, but the plant (as a whole) can answer naturally to it just like its clones (suddenly “deprivated” from a root system).
I was thinking to veg her a little and then cut the roots back and then place it into flower Shag and see what happens.
I have taken clones but as i am about to put plants in to flower and sex select then add set males in i mite just place the clone in to see if it sex’s as a male only.
Invitro study shows best roots were from very low ppm iaa bap ratio like 2ppm each but i dont use that anmore its not needed.
Bap will make roots bulging slightly the top roots (could be bad lab example) from foliar but a lot more from even 15ppm bap to roots drench and i think it stops stretch a lot more than foliar. Yellow bulding top roots if u drench for sure. This is lab observed too in many studies.
There’s a study with root pics where bap 15ppm soak roots will reverse the ga3 fuckery of masculinizing a fem plant(i dont know the actual term).
@shag males have a x y chromosome fems only x x and then u have hormonal variance across chemovars and then u have full blown og hemp hermies have xxy i think not sure.
Modern polyhybrids can shit out an early banana looking thing around harvest and no one seems to care (maybe im paranoid) …femming pgrs would supress that.
Spraying ethylene on a male i can make pistils n trichomes but it only lasts so long.
Im not sure how you can kill the y gene expression from start with bap…but with a common weed killer u can mutate a seedling permanently into a polyploid so im not sure…maybe beed to change key words to find that study.
Unfortunately i run mostly fems and dont use bap anyway until i need to stop stretch.
Second run of your chemovars is needed to perfect it if u never grew if before.
150ppm on indica at flip will make squat and hard as fuck no good lol.
6bap is the safest synthetic pgr ive read (sprayed on broccoli to keepem from dying fast and sold) but i stop at week 4 being best.
The rest is all natural or organic.
For seed soak ive been testing something used on tomatoes ONCE that increases vitamins sugar n terps tested post harvest…it’s similar to salycilic acid (main ing. in bud factor X).
I threw my ga3 in the trash. There’s way better alternatives.
If you remind me in a couple months i should have room for running some stretchy gps tombstone but i have to test it first on seeds i made n dont care about. Probably use iaa bap, Brass (fems cucumbers), and ethylene at low ppm for shits n giggles
I admit I hadn’t read the preceding posts… I reverse plants so rarely and it seems to always work that I don’t bother with other methods/explications.
I dl the pdf and will give it a look
Just because it make me laugh ^^
Thanks for the link @Fuel
That is gonna be a lot of pollen…
I found this on the insta page.
I was told you were in Michigan and brought some Flo seeds through at a private gathering. I was lucky enough to get some of them and was curious if you could tell me about them and what to expect.
@Kavman
He must be talking about your seeds… 
Or at least I think he is.
Flo, michigan, private party would be a hellava coincidence.
The story somehow went from @Kavman bringing the seeds to breeder Steve bringing them. 
If they are your seeds and I would bet they are, cause I gave them sons-a-bitches to everyone that was there. 
Breeder Steve in a video claims the next big thing in the seed industry will be fem seed that grow out sterile plants that can not be pollinated.
This comes about by selfing a plant to if i remember correctly s5 or s7s his wards.
Once you go corporate all they seem to focus on is control of this plant if the Thais have any seance they avoid his seed.
# Breeder Steve - Breeding for Female Sterility
