STS vs. CS Side by Side Comparison

[GrouchyOldMan]

Greetings All,

I’m not a breeder, but I thought it might be of interest here to share a Reversal project that I currently have going.

I have a classic White Widow photo fem strain that I cherish and want to “preserve” for my own use.

I also host a healthy WW female now flourishing on my deck that I’m basically growing for bud. To spice things up, I have both Colloidal Silver and Thiosulfate on hand. So the basics are in place to attempt a sex reversal and use the pollen selectively on a branch or two of Moms spreading branches.

Here’s the story.

Mom
Dutch genetics from ILGM White Widow photo-fem seeds. She’s all tied down to expose every budsite to the sun. First hint of pistils.

In early June I cut two clones from that WW Mom, ran them through “Protocol Zero” ( thx @JoeCrowe), rooted and up potted them to micro octopup self watering pots. In early July I began spraying CS twice daily on one of the rooted and healthy clones. A week later I applied the first STS spray on the second clone.

As of today, the CS clone has had 15 morning and evening applications (30 sprays total). The STS plant has had four applications total, one in the morning every three days.

My protocol was to completely saturate the plants on the first sprayed application and then attempt to direct additional sprays only on growth sites. That applied to both the daily CS and 3-day STS applications.

Important note: the CS spray I used is significantly stronger (240ppm) than you are likely to make at home. It was specifically recommended by @Irishrocker as I recall.

The results are striking, at least to me.

• There is significant but not fatal leaf damage on the CS plant.
• The STS plant doesn’t seem to be affected at all by the spray.
• I’ll bow to the group consensus, but I think they are both showing female parts.

Both the CS and the STS products were purchased on the Amzone so anyone should be able to replicate this using the same stuff. I’ll post details if anyone is interested.

Herewith, the Pics:

CS Clone after 30 total spray applications

CS Clone SEX?

STS Clone after four applications

STS SEX?

What say ye, Wizards of Weed?

-Grouchy

[DJSF]

@GrouchyOldMan looking good! I can’t thank you enough for doing a side by side experiment!! Looks to me like you were successful on both fronts. Somewhat hard to tell… but looks as though both pistil clusters are starting to throw pollen sacks! Next step, once ready, is to collect and check viability!

☆DJSF

[saxo]

intresting project…pulled me a chair.

[Maddawg]

@DJSF

I can’t thank you enough for doing a side by side experiment!!

I agree with .

@GrouchyOldMan

I began spraying CS twice daily on one of the rooted and healthy clones

CS = 30 applications and plant takes a beating.

STS = 4 applications and plant looks healthy.

STS appears to be less labor intensive and the plants appear to be healthy while CS is labor intensive and F’d the plants mojo up…

@GrouchyOldMan

What say ye?

[RatsboggleBiological]

Is that the Sebring kit?

Great thread, it would be nice to see more people share their experience with side by side comparison.

I’d like to see someone make their own colloidal silver and mix their own silver thiosulfate, perhaps there is a way to compare equimolar concentrations of silver ion more accurately. That way the plant damage risk would be more comparable.

[Maddawg]

Brother Randall from Swarley hooked me up with the STS.
He purchased in bulk and hooked me up.

Pretty sure @joheimgrohen received some too.

[GrouchyOldMan]

Thanks for the nice reception.

The plants are both about seven weeks old at this point. They have been under 12/12 lights since sprouting.

Any guesses as to when I’ll see a pollen drop?

[GrouchyOldMan]

Hi @Maddawg,
I’m no stranger to mixing chemicals, but I thought I’d buy the Omega Genetix product to remove any concentration uncertainty from the discussion.

I’m curious if your mix hits the same concentration?

The company says that this needs refrigeration and begins to lose effectiveness after a month or so. Is that your experience?

[JoeCrowe]

I love sex reversal experiments, and eventually I’ll do my own. So I study other people’s for now. The nuttiest results I’ve seen are from this product called eliteXelite. One spray and it was game over!
The protocol zero wasn’t well received at first when I was a newbie, but I think the results are changing hearts and minds… either that or it’s opponents left the forums bah hah! I think it’s a combo.

[Mr.Sparkle]

In essence that my experience, STS less sprays and the plant still remains good though if done a little too late or its really driving into flower production sometimes its hard to power through that so it produces pollen, and is cheap relatively for the constituents to make it.

CS beats the plant and you can’t really have weak plants for that, but it works and pretty repeatable and easy to make at home when needed, still same issue with late or heavy flower production but maybe less so to the amount of abuse it does.

[Maddawg]

To be honest I am not sure what the concentrations come out to be.

I was talking about selfing some of my keepers and Bam… Brother Randall sent me the chemicals to make my own STS.

These are the instructions…
For the STS concentrations:

You need to mix .5 grams of Silver Nitrate with 500ml of distilled water - Part A

And mx 3.9 grams of Sodium Thiosulphate (Pentahydrate) with 500ml of distilled water. - Part B

These are your two concentrated Two parts stored separately in Amber glass bottles kept in the fridge for up to 6 months once mixed with distilled water.

You combine an even amount of Part A and Part B; for example 5ml of Part A and 5ml of Part B to make a total combined 10ml. The ratio was is about 8.5 : 1 of water to your combined STS ingredients. So the ratio is 85ml of water to your 10ml of combined STS ingredients.

I will definitely let you know how the process goes when I give it a try. I just just took cuts at the begging of the week so it’s going to be a bit before I hopefully S1 some of my keepers.

On the instructions it does say that part A and B are good for up to six months when mixed with distilled water. When Part A and B are combined the solution is only good for a month.

[joheimgrohen]

Nah, I bought my chems off ebay. Although the recipe is simple.

[joheimgrohen]

They lie. I’ve used Sts That was 6 months old successfully, not even stored in a fridge.

[GrouchyOldMan]

So, we’re going on six weeks since I started this test and the results are in: Both STS & CS have produced stacked up male flowers bursting with pollen which I am now collecting, processing and storing for use once the White Widow is amenable.

The stress on the Colloidal Silver plant looked pretty bad, but it healed quickly and the result was a healthy and viable male, laden with sacks of pollen.

The STS treatment took far less effort, (four applications vs. 30 for CS) and the result was about the same. Pictures below so you can make your own judgement.

Colloidal Silver

STS

It’s worth noting again that I didn’t mix the STS, or create the CS used here. They were both purchased directly from the AmZone and the CS concentration is significantly higher than you are likely to create at home.

I was surprised to find that the male flowers were just beginning to open and drop pollen just two weeks after the last reversal application. The were both small-ish clones and they were kept under a 12/12 lighting regime the entire time.

I hope this is helpful, thanks for following along.

-Grouchy

[hashoil]

Hi folks, new here
thanks for the information on CS and STS… currently using the one to nine ratio posted online to reverse auto flower Tangie, but it appears to be failing…The plant flowered nicely although it is a stunted plant and the pistols turned orange after the second STS application I’m on the seventh application now and no male flowers ?

Has anyone reversed auto flowers?

I found one post that I have since lost that reversed a auto flower, I believe they started spraying STS on day 18 several days before first pistols appeared, and were successful with six sprays?
Thnx

[GrouchyOldMan]

Reversing autos is a tricky business, timing is in the driver’s seat and persistence is riding shotgun. What I’ve gathered is to start spraying before any sex showing and just keep it up till you see anthers (balls). Concentrate on the growth nodes rather than the whole plant & leaves.

If it fails completely you should chop the plant even if buds form: Toxic!

More details on your timing and a few pics would be helpful.

Best of luck,
-Grouchy

[Mr.Sparkle]

i do it with autos all the time, start around week 2.5-3 depending on plant size.

and depending on application and how far along it is usually takes a good 10+ days or more to see signs of pollen sacs and consider they need to be going into flower at that point

[hashoil]

Thnx, Tangie auto Plant was 21 days old when I first started applying STS & about 5” tall
(My first problem was the crop was stunted I had used the same Soil second time and not sure what happened but six different Varieties were all stunted (first time it ever happened to me that bad).!

Pic of Silver Nitrate & Sodium Thiosulfate Penta…1:9 ratio

I did just watch using STS by Sebring on YouTube, very informative the guy seems to be very successful with his breeding program. Someone here posted a link…

[hashoil]

Thnx for the info
How often do u spray ???

[GrouchyOldMan]

@Mr.Sparkle

start around week 2.5-3 depending on plant size.

Thanks @Mr.Sparkle, good info.

Can you clarify a couple of things?

Do you mean that you begin STS when the plant has been vegging for 2.5 - 3 weeks?

How often and how long do you continue spraying?

How many weeks into flower do you begin pollinating the fems?

Thanks in advance,
-Grouchy