This banter is awesome !
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India to Polynesia, across pacific to South America
I doubt they stopped at sweet potatoes.
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Nicotine only comes naturally from the Nightshade family (tobacco, tomato, potato, eggplant and peppers), all but eggplant are from North or South America (eggplant originating in Asia). How then, could a person in Europe or Africa, before the 16th century get any nicotine in there system no less enough to show up in bone fragments? Eggplant might have made itâs way to Europe sooner than the âSilk Roadâ and Germanics, originally from areas close to India could have gotten eggplant, but I donât think there are any records of that (believe it or not, I actually did some research on nicotine/nightshades).
This means one of four things; one, they are full of shit and are lying about their findings, for some reason; two, their tests are flawed and they got false positives; three, there is another source of nicotine we know nothing about; or four, all this shit was everywhere and we just donât know it (or have no proof of it).
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Very possible. Hemp was known to the Chinese as medicine but they really donât have a weed as recreational culture, even though youâd think theyâd be familiar with it since India/Nepal/Afghanistan/etc. used it as such. Maybe it just wasnât shown as a potential valuable crop, maybe the natives werenât interested in it for their purposes. Itâs not like they had translators either and the vikings abandoned their settlements so itâs not like they really had time to exchange ideas/items/culture. Plus the natives didnât have much the vikings wanted to steal.
If you donât farm or sail what use would hemp be? Change can come slowly to less advanced societies if it doesnât fit their current program.
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Thereâs a lot of structural similarities in building techniques in ancient buildings too. Between that and the genetic studies on people, thereâs a strong support for, at the very least, global trading happening long ago.
Iâve always been of the mindset of this:
Science says humans have been on earth, just like you and me, for the last ~250000 years, for sure, right. Give or take 50000 years⌠So theyâre telling us, we spent ~240000 of those years not knowing how to speak or write to each other⌠never looking at things, year after year and putting 2 and 2 together. Just wandering around in small groups, hunting animals randomly, and never once settling down and figuring things out⌠I donât know about you, but that sounds a bit far-fetched to me. I donât believe this is the first time weâve been here as a global society. Itâs just all been destroyed and anything left that was good wouldâve been immediately hoarded in someoneâs or countries private stash, never to be seen again.
The land bridge was talked about earlier for a possible way to bring cannabis here but thereâs datings being done in south america that are putting civilizations there 20 to 30000 years ago, way before the land bridge wouldâve been available, and regardless, much older than the north american clovis sites weâve found, meaning even if the bridge was there, they didnât use it. Most likely wouldâve been from a boat. Except a lot of the ancient mesoamerican creation myths say they came there by way of a cave system that they crawled out of, and not that they sailed over.
Edit, sorry to be slightly off topic. But i guess TL;DR we donât even know how people got here 
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@HolyAngel I think âLike Usâ has only been about 50,000 years, with âClose to Usâ being about 250,000. But I could be wrong. It is possible that some of these plants were growing in other parts of the world, but why would we have to âdiscoverâ them a few thousand years later? I donât know. Itâs for people smarter than me to decide⌠
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Your missing link
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Check out " Brian Foerster on You tube of you want some interesting facts on long skulls of the Paracus culture. Some 2 or 3000 years ago
DNA testing has shown that they are from the Crimea, and the Caucasus Mtn region along the Black sea⌠., proving intercontinental movement by water. These Peruvian skulls are the longest long skulls on earth, and the second longest are from the Black Sea area. Did they bring cannabis? It would require pollen analysis to prove itâŚ
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Iâve read about this. Thanks for the link. Interestingly, the polynesian word Manna or Mana, means energy. The same word Mosus people, The Israelites used.
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Been on this for a while now. Still developing a sound theory. Anything else you find be sure to share it. Thanks @Upstate
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Thereâs a ton of info on this stuff. The more you look, the easier it becomes to find it. Itâs not mainstream yet, but it will be.
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Lots of questions needs answered in the process. Without using the traditional methods to determine dates the scientific community will always be skeptical and reduce findings to theories.
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My feeling exactly. New discoveries demand answers. Just because something doesnât fit in with accepted theories doesnât mean it shouldnât be researched. In my opinion thatâs more reason to research it. If we have been wrong we should do our best to fix that.
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To me, the most interesting thing about the hash mummies, is that it was not just one mummy, for just one time period. The mummies with THC in them span hundreds of years, showing either local cultivation of marijuana, or constant contact with an outside source. Since the Egyptian mummies have cocaine and nicotine in them, I think it was probably Egypt that was doing the traveling back and forth. The time lines match up as well.
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Egypt time periods go back to solomans temple. You think the lambsbread legend is true?
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It is possible, sure, but other groups havenât been able to replicate the âcocaine mummyâ findings, and apparently other plants contain Nicotine that were known to Egyptians. THC makes sense, Egyptians likely cultivated hemp or traded with people who did.
I ascribe to the theory of Basques being ancient seafaring traders well prior to Columbus, but hard evidence is scant. Further, all the way back to Ancient Egypt is a stretch.
THC in Egyptian mummies would be expected, but what about the THC in Peruvian mummies from over 2,000 years ago? These test results have been repeatable. Since mummies are a time capsule, no contamination was possible. I donât know of any other plants that contain THC⌠and I donât know any psychoactive plants that were discovered in the past and then just discarded. Theyâre use would have been continued and documented, but there is no historical record that I know of. Typically, when addictive plants are cultivated, the cultivation of them continues unless a stronger than replacement has been found. Is there documented evidence that plants containing nicotine were used in Africa like they were in the Western Hemisphere? Iâll look that up. With the exception of THC in Peruvian mummies, none of these interesting findings alone is enough to convince me of anything. But, all taken together, itâs pretty hard to ignore.
Itâs very possible that Basque people went far and wide around the world. They would be related to the atlanteans who were known seafarers. Is there evidence that they used hash?
The Phoenicians would be another good guess for the source of this hash . Copper samples taken from the Mediterranean region have been thoroughly examined, and they could have only come from one place because the purity of the Copper from this place is the highest on Earth, This place is on some Islands in Lake Superior. The native peoples talk about large flying canoes going about the lake to these islands. Sounds like a ship with sails to me⌠and is good evidence that the Phoenicians were in the Western Hemisphere over 2000 years ago.
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Well youâre right, if THC was indeed found, it would suggest earlier contact. Many people think ancient Polynesians made it to the West Coast of the Americas, and if anyone could do it, they could. Sometimes it boggles my mind that people found their way to little islands thousands of miles from anything else in a vast ocean, but I also wonder how many trips failed before they made it. Maybe hundreds. Perhaps Polynesians introduced Cannabis to the Americas, but they donât seem to have a big Cannabis culture either, although they are certainly farmers of other crops.
Maybe Phoenicians and Basques made it over, itâs entirely possible. Not every ancient society was as big on writing shit down and building massive structures like the Egyptians did, so maybe the New World was well known to them but they didnât bother with records of it. The ONLY reason we know so much about ancient people (and further back) is the evidence was preserved in caves, everything else would have been swallowed up by the earth or degraded.
Devilâs advocate, werenât ancient people able to refine copper? Why travel so far for something available locally? I think the âAtlanteansâ were the Ancient Basques.
Sometimes I also think of the âInuit Connectionâ in that far northern nomadic hunter peoples had access to both New and Old World pathways over the ice. It is possible they could trade metals to peoples further south, then take those metals to the other continent. They wouldnât have had much interest in seeds or crops due to their climate, but metal tools absolutely. The cultures of far northern Russia and far Northern Canada are very similar and probably had contact with one another, who had contact with people further south. It may have taken years, but a copper knife from Lake Superior could make it Asia over time.
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They found some Polynesian tablets engraved in acient Pacific Rosewood that I donât think have been deciphered yet. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decipherment_of_rongorongo#Jaussen_list
The topic of the texts is unknown; various investigators have speculated they cover genealogy, navigation, astronomy, or agriculture. Oral history suggests that only a small elite were ever literate, and that the tablets were considered sacred.
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