Good stuff. Nice ink.
Rehashing from a month ago and nutrient specifics being my weak point for a good while now knowledge wise considering Mg and S is supplied in their 5-12-26 and you consider it heavy as far as Mg goes, is the addition of espom actually serving a purpose or could it possibly be negated baring any supposed Mg hungry verity’s?
Not to discount quite a few tend to run a more dilute straight 3/2/1g ratio instead of the 3.79/2.52/0.99 g or 3.6/2.4/1.1g per gal that jrpeters recommends in various parts of their site though even at that dilute ratio the base 5-12-26 would still provides around 50ppm Mg and 65ppm of S.
Second kinda question even though you have discussed P concentrations and how it can effect overall yields at the expense of total cannabinoid concentrations though mind you at half the yield and all that, you were talking about concentrations of the 60ppm range , what if ones suggested mix was double that apart from unused waste and effect on EC where would you consider the upper range where toxicity comes into play kinda half negating all other environmental and grow factors that definitely play an effect ?
That question stems from myself picking up some PlantProd MJ Bloom “10-30-20” and CalKick “15-0-14” products to play with and through playing with calculators and their own “guides” a mix ratio of between 1-1.5g/l of bloom and 0.45-0.9g/l of cal kick for “weeks 5-10”, using the low ends of that throws out a mix thats 168-130-218ppm NPK wise which is why my feelers and questions went up on P concentrations as in the end im just trying to figure out a comparable point vs other fertilizer concentrations that seem to work to start playing around at though im now questioning it with my limited nutrient specific knowledge as another thing is the bloom portion also is 4.8% NH4+ but im not ready to get into that and how that can play into it as far as ec goes and how that has to breakdown to be utilized.
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From my observations in running some different amounts of Mg, I’ve noticed that some plants seem to like more than 55ppm of Mg, but it is nearly or mostly sufficient for many strains. I think I like 65ppm better. I recall reading some article that said 50-75ppm is the ideal range. Unless I have something typed in wrong for Jacks, I think their recommended rate comes out around 90ppm for one of the “full strength” formulas, and I can’t really rationalize it.
3/2/1g ratio comes out to this:
And hydrobuddy suggests that this mixes to about 1.6 EC. The sulfur really increases the EC. You could take that 50ppm and give it to N/P and swap 15ppm from the Mg to the Ca and I think it would be better.
If you had 120ppm of P, it would probably not cause any serious problems. I think if you were running that much for a long period of time, it could cause zinc and copper lockout, but maybe if the formula is made for it, they already compensate.
If you were just using it for a short period, like in late veg / early bloom, it would most likely be fine. You usually have oversupply of P or S anyway. The only other major anion is N, and that one you don’t want to oversupply. The other two seem to have pretty wide tolerance ranges, with S being the most ‘inert’. It’s probably almost double what is likely to be beneficial… but what are you gonna do with more S anyway.
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Understatement of the year 
For me anyways!
While I’m here I’ll share something I saw on jacks the other night…
There are so many people fiddling w it lol
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yeah their full strength mix puts Mg around 95ppm according to how i calculate it, mind you at least where im playing with levels wise is more in that 60ppm range.
And yeah the High P just seemed odd at least for longer periods, so playing with ratios calculations wise for the PlantProd stuff i found a bit better levels only at the downside of low calcium of in the 55-65ppm range unless swapping their calkick product out for calnit.
All learning and trying to figure out what may be needed when say considering growing in coco that may provide more natural K at the expense of requiring more calcium and magnesium and how one may need to adjust those ratios of “standard” mixes to make things more suited i just have to dive deeper into what may be more ideal for coco as i havent really found that yet in alot of the “info” thats out there that unfortunately needs to be waited through.
Thanks for the discussion.
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Current test schedule
This is my current test in Royal Tupur gold using the ‘hybrid hempy buckets’ method I’m also testing. So far things are going really well.
Blue bars are “stage 1”, which is veg. Stage 2 / orange is what I’m currently on, or early flower through the end of stretch. And stage 3 will be a transition into late flower.
For stages 1 and 2, I use a high amount of N and P. Also, I start with high Ca and gradually drop it. This is to really load it up in the media so that I can drop it of at the end. P is very useful when plants are growing quickly. It’s a energy transport nutrient that helps aid photosynthesis. It’s good to use when N is also high. I split P in two forms – roughly 50% from MKP orthophosphate and 50% grow clean, which is 50/50 ortho/poly phoshates. Overall that provides about 25% polyphoshate and 75% orthophosphate. The “cleaing action” of grow clean may also help rinse down any potential salt buildup in coco, which seems like a sensible medium for it.
Coco starts with some natural K that eventually works out and is replace by Ca. So I start with a low amount, because at the beginning, the plant also does not need too much. In tomatoes, K is known to enhance fruit quality, but is not necessarily needed in high amounts until the end. This works out well for coco, where I can slam the medium with Ca cations instead and prepare it for a nitrogen dropout at the end. AFAIK Mg cations are needed in roughly constant amounts throughout the grow. I like to provide 60-65ppm typically.
In the final stage, I will shift the anions from N/P into primarily S (and some Cl, not shown). This ought to prioritize cannabinoid concentration over yield. As calcium is front loaded into the media from when we used high concentrations earlier, I believe it will be safe to reduce to a low normal amount. Development of plant tissues is reduced in this stage, and we don’t want to create excessive competition for uptake with K.
So that’s a fully reasoned nutrient plan for macros/secondaries from start to finish. Micros are my own blend I described earlier and being mostly immobile should be provided as constant from start to finish. Hope it helps to share the knowledge. Now to find out how well it works.
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@lefthandseeds. This might sound like a dumb question but, how do you increase Ec while keeping your profile the same? I know everything says to just dilute with water or, add more nutes but that doesn’t work when mixing your own salts. The mix I’m running now mixes to 1.6 Ec. Say I want to increase that to a 2.0. Do I just increase the ppm of each element while keeping the ratios the same? Sorry for such a newb question but, I appreciate the help Thanks in advance.
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That’s interesting, I’ve been finding adding steady Ca from seedling to bloom transition, ramping it during early-mid bloom, then dropping a bit til the end works best for my plants. I don’t ever drop it completely. No science, just observation.
And adding KSO4 to bloom feeds has eliminated the crispy margins I used to get.
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Yea basically you either just use more salts or use less water. Like if you were using 321 in 1/2 gallon of water instead of 1 gallon, then your EC would be twice as much.
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I only do that for coco, because the media soaks some up and there’s not a lot of need for potassium in early stages. I don’t think you need to do it necessarily, but you also don’t need a lot of potassium either, so take your pick. I just like knowing that the coco is good and buffered up with calcium early on.
Adding potassium sulfate is a great supplement for late bloom to change the cation ratio toward the end. If you mix from scratch, you have a little more control over how to do it, so you can just rebalance everything as you like. You don’t necessarily need to increase the EC to do it.
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If only I wasn’t such a slacker, lol!
I tried Megacrop a few years ago, and with a few tweaks, I can mix 5 + gal buckets with early veg, late veg, and bloom, and like looking at the plants til the end 
I just find the talking about and experimenting with salts in all different/similar ways very interesting!
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Hello @lefthandseeds. Is that veg formula you posted a little while back working out for you? I’ve been having issues with my current mix and was thinking of trying to come close to your numbers. The mix I’m currently running is as follows
N-159
P-60
K-218
Ca-196
Mg-65
S-140
Si-15
Fe-3.1
B-0.58
Mn-0.89
Mo-0.026
Zn-0.179
Cu-0.04.
Care to critique these numbers for me?
I only have Cal-nite at the moment so, can’t get my Ca lower. Would like it closer to 180-185. My S is sky high because I only have SOP for my K and Epsom for my Mg. Ordering some Potassium Nitrate and, Mg nitrate and most likely some grow clean polyphosphates here very shortly. Thanks again for the help.
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Those numbers look ok, I think you’re running a bit higher than me in veg with K, Ca and S. I tried K as low as ~140 early on and it was ok, but I think it’s better around 160.
Next run, I’ll probably veg around
N - 160
P - 60 (75% ortho, 25% poly – or half from MKP, half from grow clean)
K - 160
Ca - 160
Mg - 65
If you use pure cal or cal prime, you can use some magnesium or potassium nitrate instead of sulfates and have a lower EC. But higher S might be just fine too. In the micros, the biggest differences are that I’m using higher Zn/Cu and higher B as well. In Royal Gold Tupur, they use some Basalt too, so there might be some contribution to micros from that.
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Thanks @lefthandseeds. I hear that royal gold tupar is some good stuff. I should try it out myself. What’s your take on running the higher Boron?
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I also wanted to ask you if there was a reason you run a 1:1 on K and Ca? I tried running a 1:1 to try and jump start transpiration and, immediately got K deficiencies. Running the exact same clones from last run and, they hated the profile they loved last time. Can’t seem to find the sweet spot for N:K:Ca.
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I had K down to ~140 with Ca at ~160. I didn’t seen any deficiencies even that low, but I think that’s probably as low as I’d consider. I think the sweet spot in veg is higher than that. You’re not too far off from 1:1 at 218/196. Were you getting K deficiency with those numbers? Seems to me like it would be ok. Maybe Tupur has more natural K, but who knows.
I’m running B at 1-1.5ppm right now. Definitely no problems there. I feel like it could go higher, but I’m not sure if it’s really necessary. Tupur has basalt in it, but I don’t think that has boron in it. I was planning to try higher, but I played it conservative, because I wasn’t sure about the basalt.
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I was originally running K at 183 with Ca at 186 to try and get the plants to absorb more Ca. I started getting K deficiencies pretty quickly. I’ve been bumping K up about 10 ppm a week trying to find the sweet spot where I start seeing 7-9 pronged leaves. That lets me know they’re happy with the N:K ratio. I have yet to find it this run lol! 
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Hello @lefthandseeds. Just wanted to pick your brain quick if you don’t mind. I just received my polyphosphate from CHN. Couldn’t find the post but, from what I recall you said to use 50/50 ortho/ polyphosphate for P in my mix. Is this correct?
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I think the grow clean is already 50/50 ortho/poly. I have had good success using it in equal parts with MKP, which puts my total ratio at 75/25 ortho/poly. If you are using it as a supplement with another nutrient like Jacks, then assume the P is 100% ortho.
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Thanks. I’m trying to come up with a better mix for coco. I’m having a hell of a time this run trying to get rid of deficiencies. My temps are low so that isn’t helping with transpiration. Been reading a lot of old forums and I’m seriously thinking of mixing up a batch of jacks 3-2.5 and saying screw it but When I see the numbers on paper, I can’t help but mess with the recipe.
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