So, I sprouted a few blueberry seeds a while back. Put them into flower when young, to get sex ID. Pulled out the females and put them into another tent for later use.
But, I had one nice healthy male that I liked. This plant showed as strong, 100% male. No doubts (in my mind anyway)
So, I put him back into veg (18/6) with a couple other various females. That was several weeks ago.
I checked on this plants today and the male is growing pistils! In 18/6 light!?
Not only that, it seems to have seeded itself in a couple of nodes!
Has anyone seen males do this when going through the stress of re-veg?
Is this male worth hanging onto, or is he too much a risk for passing on hermie genes?
I had a male do something similar and a few users informed me that its a pretty normal thing. It’s also apparently normal for a regular male under regular flowering hours to throw the odd pistil. I’ve never really grown males so was new to all of this.
Neat plant, mine did something similar with those rounded leaves and stuff… freaky!
I have seen this with C99 and recently with an Early Girl knockoff called First Girl -don’t ask XD.
DJ Short referred to a male that eventually shows this as a backwards herm and didn’t think they were a bad thing:
A quick word on “backward” hermaphrodites ? declared males that eventually sport female flowers ? as opposed to the usual female-to-male hermaphrodites. These are semi-rare occurrences, usually sterile but sometimes viable, that I have found at times to be valuable in their genetic contributions. Some of the most resinous and desirable males I have encountered exhibited this trait. This trait almost seems to guarantee against unwanted hermaphroditism in subsequent generations as it also increases the female to male ratio in its progeny.)
I am yet to grow out seeds made from the C99 to see whether I get hermaphrodism in the females, or just really frosty females…
I think it’s worth it. I will be making my own version of Knight’s Templar when I pollinate a herijuana with the backward and very frosty C99 male I have - I will of course be growing those out and will report back to you as well. Good luck and good work
Logically, I don’t think there’s any benefit to it, as far as I can tell. If you want stable plants, I believe it’s best practice to never use any herm in breeding unless it’s induced via reversal. But I’m no expert, just an avg joe blow without nearly as much experience as the aforementioned breeders.
As for DJ’s claims, bodhi seems to find perfectly resinous males without issue or herms. He’s posted dozens of pics of them without pistils over the years.
Very fair comments and I totally get where you’re coming from. A full on herm is pretty easy to identify and be culled. We may simply find that this fails and that’s all good. I’ve wasted time on worse strains and claims
But what’s different about this one is that it didn’t show pistils for months and that it will return to 100% male if left to grow out with ample root room. I get where you’re coming from, but even the slightest possibility that it could pass on more female traits has my curiosity and I am willing to take one for the team. I will purposely stress the offspring to see it there’s any way for me to get a female to herm. If any do, the male and all the seeds made from him will be gone.
Cool, experiments are good. Even if they’re not high enough numbers, or in a controlled environment with variables tracked well enough to be statistically significant, it’s neat to see trends in your own garden if you’re not trying to do it for profit.
For profit requires a whole different standard, imho, and I think that is underscored by DJ and JD’s recent string of swing & misses in their last few years of releases.
So DJ short also says his article that these backwards male pretty much elminate herm traits not reinforce them.
If his females hermed alot from this surely we would of known about it by now?
To work pure landraces into stable indoor non-herming strains isnt as easy as the Dutch have made it seem.
Ive started to realize maybe i dont wanna be publicly sharing some of these things anymore with people that dont know or wont put in the effort to learn more about plants and genetics…nope …never seen a hermie in my entire life growing…yep…that’s what im saying from now on…never ever ever ever seen a hermie. Dont even know what one looks like
that dj-info is out there to keep people from getting better results than him
(and mayyyyybe to make the few hermaphrodites in his lines appear not so bad)
… but i am just joking, of course
big up to dj’s camp !!
i have never grown anthing that i did not greatly enjoy in the end
(after nagging about how finicky the grow was, of course. LOL).
Maybe just me but I’ve been having trouble posting, sometimes I go to reply but it ends up editing a previous post of mine instead. Still learning how to navigate the site, apologies for the confusion in that regard.
Started replying If you don’t want to this before the post was mergedshare publicly, you don’t have to. Fittingly too! @Andrane DJ Short talks about experience with “backwards hermies” and some You also don’t have supposedly been found by to make it seem like you’re better than others in his blue lines toofor learning something before they did.
@Mithridate have you had that plant for a while or is it a relatively fresh germination? I’ve read that this can happen to some male plants that have been vegging for a long time. Very cool plant. Are you going to work with it more? Some suggest that these plants make potent crosses, and would love to hear your thoughts on the subject.
@Mudballs Why even make such a comment? The whole purpose of these conversations in my opinion is to share and learn. We aren’t coming out of the womb all knowing. Usually when people say they know something but don’t talk about it, they either don’t know or want to use that information to benefit themselves instead of sharing and uplifting others around them.
Those who enjoy teaching, learning, and growing don’t typically care about the education level of those around them trying to learn. What they may or may not know. They find a way to relate and share and teach and grow.
You don’t have to share publicly if you don’t want to, but to go around publicly and say that you know more but don’t want to share because of the limited scope of others is something else. Why the sour tone? I can’t tell if it’s because of nomenclature or something else entirely. We’re all here to learn, teach, and grow. To uplift one another and raise the level across the board. Much love
This was a lifesaver f2, planted outdoors straight into dirt early June. It was a friend’s grow and that plant was chopped before it dropped pollen or thereabout.
I personally wouldn’t use such “male”.
They have a tendency to increase female ratios to 75% which seem like a good deal.
The catch is more females(75%) of lower quality vs 50% of higher potential quality females when using a true male.
In the 75 ones you would get 25% of “good quality” females even though you get more total number of XX.
The 5050 ratio you’d get 50% of “good quality” females to look through.
That’s notwithstanding other possible issues, like more switcharoos plants.
Excuse the terrible explanation…
*I want to point out that I grew over 300 f2s outdoors and this is the only confused plant I got. If you grow enough I guess it can happen…
If we grew our gardens based on the preferences and tastes of others they wouldn’t be our gardens. You’re not the authority on what is or isn’t a positive trait, and even if that may be very well true, that intersex expressions are negative traits, are you really saying that the subject can’t even be talked about?
Thai weed is often intersex and a lot of the modern elite cultivars came from intersex pollen making some seeds in otherwise sensimilla runs. Thai weed is also some of the most acclaimed and world renowned weed ever.
Are you speaking from experience breeding and working with intersex plants and their progeny or just parroting what is common knowledge in the canna world? It’s estimated that only 5 percent of plant species have two separate sexes and it’s even suggested that dioecy evolved from a hermaphrodite ancestor in angiosperms.
Intersex traits come out in different genetics under different circumstances and selective pressures. I don’t think grouping all of them together, labeling them bad, and saying let’s not talk about it is the best approach. But you do you.
Just found an interesting article on the subject I haven’t seen before and am intrigued with reading. Hermaphroditism in Marijuana (Cannabis sativa L.) Inflorescences – Impact on Floral Morphology, Seed Formation, Progeny Sex Ratios, and Genetic Variation by Punja and Holmes 2020.
lol