MOTR grows with OniTenshu

OniTenshu · February 14, 2019, 4:24pm

When life gets chaotic and overloads you it’s best to take a break. As much flack as I get for it I take a year off work when it gets to the point I’ll start butting heads with management. The first time I did that I got bribed by my work to stay another 2 days or a week with a extra $50 a day just to come in while they replaced me. That bridge I burned as that company was shady and I found out for sure last year or so when they sent me the thing in the mail saying that I could Sue for money owed to me, but with the 100k split in about 25k ways I wasn’t feeling it and just forgot about the probably $5 I would get at best.

Altogether though I bounced back fast this time. I usually take much longer to calm my head. I was stressed out enough to lose my appetite before and now I’m eating 12x a day again. Finally I don’t look like a stick figure lost weight and I’m back to a stick figure drawn with a sharpie. Still happy either way. I can sit on hardwood chairs again and not bruise my tailbone

OniTenshu · March 22, 2020, 1:51am

So now that I’m back and have time.

Just a question though I see the time table is timed up with the time I started germination on the Platinum Glue auto x Blue Zkitlez photo. Should I start the germ on the lucky 7s already or is there a time I’m waiting to start soaking the seeds?

@ModicumGenes you made some super strong plants with a fast growth and high tolerance to issues in general. If the little one is anything like their older sister they’ll be taking full advantage of the lights provided. So far she’s very light hungry and showing a indica dominant phenotype so far Nice fat fingers and already pretty dark too.

On that note I’m excited to start the lucky 7s😃 It’ll be interesting to see the colors they produce. I’m seeing a trend of suntanning on all the plants. Once they get dark like that the growth picks up heavily, so I’m not leaning toward nitrogen burned and instead towards anthocyanins darkening up pigment on any plants that can express them. Once I added the 2 6000k corncobs and the 2 2700k corncobs back in I noticed the overall spectrum has balanced out to a much more even spread and leaning higher on the white side. The plants seem to love it since I added them in. I think it’s really just because of the main gaps covered barely RN. Regardless I dig around and found out what diodes the corncobs are using at least

It’s interesting to see it’s not completely garbage at least, but regardless I’ll be replacing them once I can get at least 4 more qb120 in there and a rack/rail setup to neatly get the lights in there and in a pattern as far as I can see will be the best possible one with the zmeans included as if a seedling prefers it to the 3000k light above. They’ll work better as supplemental lights more in the center crossed the long way with QB lights surrounded on all 4 sides of them and a QB at the center. Makes me need 13 QB to get the total amount for the large scale version of the light I want to make. I toyed with the idea of adding in 4 COBs in the build, but I’m not sure of anything I can do to get the heat away from the QBs safely even with a heatsink the heat from the light that close would probably be too hot.

I’m seeing a trend of when I’m staying up late that I get a little loopy. Crazy idea or not it’s fascinating to my sooner mind also and I’ve been thinking of the best arrangement of lights if I were to include the zmean lights and use the QB120 lights as the primary light source. That build should be sufficient at every stage.

Anyone is welcome to add input as I just need 2 more HLG 65 kits and a frame to get them all in the tent neatly for my current build to eliminate dark spots entirely and have enough light to properly cover the tent.

OniTenshu · February 16, 2019, 6:11am

Okay change of plans for design. Rough draft for concept, but white is COB, yellow is QB, and pink is zmean

Much less complicated to figure out with 5 COBs and 8 QB120 mixed with the zmean that way, but I’m more than welcome for input on the build. The zmeans are here to stay though as that seedling was stubborn at leaning to the zmean it was 12" close to, but it shouldn’t have had much of any light from it at that angle on the floor. That and the growth picked up significantly once they started to shine the color of light the zmeans give off. Not 100% to scale, but approximately the size of each.

They’re not as intense as the QB are, so the seedling tilting the leaves to the zmean says they have something they’re missing my at least that that seedling wanted badly. Maybe it’s just the fact that I have 516w in there RN or it’s that the mono LEDs help a lot😅 IDK.

With that I’ll charge up my phone to get the update ready

MomOnTheRun · February 16, 2019, 7:38am

Pure coincidence

Start them anytime…we were initially waiting for the Lucky Charms to get here so I can start them all at the same time for easier management though now that germination didn’t go so well and have f3’s on the way, it doesn’t matter really as they;ll be different ages anyhow

OniTenshu · February 16, 2019, 7:44am

I’ll start soaking the seeds then. I’ve decided on a name for the seedling finally and it’s Midna. She’s stubborn and a little demented, but she’s also a darker color almost right away vs later on like the rest.

MomOnTheRun · March 25, 2020, 8:51pm

Whelp, no sign of the other 4 Lucky Charms so I dug them up to take a look

1 looks like it wanted to do something then decided not to. Ah well we have 3 to take care of with the F3’s coming late next week. @OrganicGorilla

The clover is doing great getting established so moving to misting them every other day to let the top of the soil dry out a bit forcing their roots to search for water

Brought out the Lucky 7’s in natural light and show their progress thus far,they are all really stretched though that’s what happens when the light is too far away

Both of these are the same age +/- an hour. Notice how the white cup (1/2" seedling soil) is 1 node ahead? This is due to the early root restriction

Taking them out of their pots to check root structure, you can see they have the same amount of roots just the one in 1/2 the seedling soil is using it more effectively branching off sooner

Now all the one’s that were in the white cups are now in 1" pots for the next 2 weeks…filled the bottom half with new seedling soil (moist from being sealed in a plastic baggy) then the roots right on top so they can grow deeper really filling the pot better…no water was added. I still had to add a support stick to help them stay up for the time being…sorry no pics as I was doing 4 things at once

Once I was done, I put them back in the cabinet on top of a box so they are closer to the light at 16-18" from 34-36"

I should have had them at this closer distance from the get go and normally do to keep them short and conserve energy though wanted to show them trying to support their leaf sets while reaching for the light…if I had ANY light source closer, they would lean right into it and continue to stretch instead of staying upright focusing on proper root/shoot growth.

Anyhow, this will stop their stretch allowing them to harden so when they go into 3" pots (at 3 wks old), the stem will be able to handle being buried which will make more roots in the upper part of the soil from the stem (like tomato plants) so its really no big deal at this moment

What to expect this week:
Continued lover growth (above and below soil)
Lucky 7’s adding a new node every 3-4 days

What to do this week:
Spray clover every other day
Continue to lightly mist seedlings daily with plain water
Give 1 Tb plain water on Sunday (tomorrow) and wait to do it again until Thursday

OniTenshu · March 22, 2020, 1:57am

Okay awesome and I’ve put the 5 lucky 7 in the 1" pots and one if my small 3" I believe pots once they sank and stayed sunken. Bigger pot I had in the soil mix of Diana’s soil with the leftover fox farm and happy frog mix I threw clover in eventually. Midna did really well with it and she’s leaning like you mentioned, but I’m seeing large leaf growth at the same time now confusing me😅

I scattered them around the tent

MomOnTheRun · February 17, 2019, 4:31am

Ok so what happens when a seed sprouts, is it sends the 1st root down as it does this, it raises the seed up…sometimes the shell is on (tough seed/ planted shallow) and sometimes its off when we see emergence then the cotyledons break free. When the cotyledons start absorbing light, that 1st root starts making other roots…these are the feeders then as the plant gets bigger or needs more support, it will send out anchor roots.

We limit the amount of anchor roots by keeping the seedling short, grow out the roots by limiting water making them search for it and only give nutrients when needed to build the amount of feeder roots

So this cycle continues and is why early root restriction works for faster development with a strong root system to handle the heavier nutrients bigger plants require…Midna’s 1st root hit the bottom fairly early and has made her secondary roots and is working on establishing her feeder roots showing so with her top growth…by the 2nd set of “true” leaves the cotyledons have done their job and will shrivel up relying on the roots to take over…they can stay ~a week longer when the soil is nutrient rich when this transition happens. When given “weaker” transition soil’s along the different stages, it primes the plant to only get what it needs to really work for it instead of having everything available all at once plus they tend to be easier to maintain

Cool. Just make sure they are within 18" from the qb’s when they emerge otherwise they will stretch which costs you root development/structure time… no big deal at this stage if/when they do as long as they are going to be potted up to account for the extra trunk development. Later on, we’ll get “further then average” node distance/spacing if its not corrected early on

OniTenshu · February 17, 2019, 12:27pm

Okay cool. I’ll probably put them on a stand or something. Wit the fast roots I’m liable to see them grow into the soil beneath if I used the pots to help out the distance as the lights are about 24" above Zelda’s canopy now as the heat produced the last few days has been ridiculous. I turned my heat off today and opened some windows as it was feeling stuffy in the plant room. All the ventilation in the world won’t help out when it’s muggy outside the tent too:sweat_smile: it was so hot in there there heat lines visible if I look at my window

I sprayed all the pots at 1am and now at 7am I found that all pots were dry and leaning on hydrophobic. Seedlings included, so I got out my water bottle and the water I had left out to dechlorinate and got to work. All pots got sprayed until the soil became dark from Chestnut brownish.
The temp was at 86f😅 I turned the filter on high to help and the fan was pointed directly at the plants again. I added the old orb fan back in the tent also.

It would seem I’m officially at the if I don’t properly ventilate the plants will likely die situation as I’m not using co2 and if I am I’m getting the same levels as they are. I’m not noticing any carbon monoxide symptoms and my sensor hasn’t freaked out either.

At least despite the heat it’s only the soil having a hard time it legitimately makes me laugh TBH as the plants want more than I can give them and the soil just wants to fight me at every turn

MomOnTheRun · February 18, 2019, 1:40am

Getting you proper grow lights was just the start of getting your tent set up and dialed in as there are multiple issues going on

The seedlings should be covered to keep their humidity up for sprouting and early growth…with the seedling mix, you should not have to give water until they are a week old as everything in it holds water (peat, ewc, vermicilite) with just a little aeration (chunky perlite and vermicilite). Another issue is your soil is drying out too fast though is it really? Remember, it dries up from the outside in…since your bags sit on the ground its only escaping from the sides and top so you may have enough water already throughout the middle and bottom

I really don’t think it is drying out as fast as you think because the plants are showing they are over watered (leaf droop only)…all but the auto though something is locking her nutrients out. If it truly is with the plants at the wilting point (leaf AND stem droop) then you’ll need to add a mulch even if its just a piece of cardboard to conserve moisture from the top and/or put each fabric bag into a plastic grocery bag to conserve moisture from the sides…In a dry environment, 30% of the soils saturation point is given every 3-4 days to maintain a moist soil not hours like the coco/hydro guys. So if it took 1 gallon (16c) for the soil to get hydrated with just a drop or 2 released with the soil ball test, anymore than 4.5c every 3-4 days is too much…over water, root death, nutrients in the soil is unavailable etc.

Where are you measuring your temp and humidity? Just below the lights is a false reading and so it directly on the floor though you can average both readings out to get the canopy temp or simply take your readings just below the top most leaf set in your canopy…your soil temp will be ~10F cooler IF you have your intake twice as big as your extraction fan ie 8" extraction fan needs 16" intake holes whereas a 4" extraction fan, needs 8" etc

This is just from the top of my head though there are other factors involved that we must tackle now otherwise your going to have to shut down fairly soon as spring approaches… I already know the z-means aren’t doing anything for your plants in the position they are except adding to the heat…looks like you removed your circulation fan that I had you set between the light and the canopy… something tells me your limiting your air intake again which really doesn’t help matters for air flow/exchange and your extraction fan may be too small for your environment…

Remind me again, what are you using for extraction and we’ll go from there

OniTenshu · February 18, 2019, 4:41am

I’m using a vivohome 6" extraction fan and carbon filter combo. The same you linked in my first thread for the grow

OniTenshu · February 18, 2019, 5:12am

I’ve had them at nearly every spot possible. I usually keep the monitor at a shady spot, but those lights kinda wash out Shadows nearly everywhere. I can only think the spot the fan is at is where I could place it.

As for the soil I’ve noticed it’s dry down to the bottom. It’s only reaching a natural 30% humidity just recently in my house. At night it still drips down to 16% usually though. So even without the lights in the way I see 68f and 16% as my average night problems. Upside is I appear to be good with Midna ATM, but let’s see show long she likes the arid environment I doubt she’s hardened off at all and I’m doing what I can. All I can do to keep the humidity in check is to turn off the filter unfortunately. Without it I can’t keep it cool enough to not overheat the tent. The struggle
I’m not letting it stop me. I’ll find what I can do to solve this. Soil outside of the tent behaves normally like expected. Drying from the top and taking time to dry down. Most of the plants dry until a crunch is heard if the pot is squeezed. Once I get daisey harvested I’ll probably just turn off the filter for periods of time to manage humidity. The filter on low still filters out too much humidity, but once it’s properly spring time I won’t have much issues for humidity once I add some damprid again. I doubt I’ll need them though. As for shutting the grow down I’d rather do that after finishing the plants after spending all he time and money on them. I don’t have enough megacrop to make it through another grow, so if I can manage this grow I’ll be happy. It Should be way easier to manage at flower though and I just can’t open windows for extended periods of time winter grows are going to be the end of me. Maybe if I managed to grow at least a lb I’d be set for the next grow properly, but that’s a whole other thing

OniTenshu · February 18, 2019, 5:35am

Oh yeah I forgot to add that the auto should be already at the end of it’s life based on the 8-10 week schedule she should be on. IDK, but she’s still bulking up. Should I add nutrients? I tried adding some before and even high nitrogen didn’t fix it or cause issues. Somehow daisey just dgaf what I feed her and she just wants to die soon I think. I’ve probably just delayed her fall time mode slightly somehow. Can someone explain that to me? I don’t understand how a auto with a internal timer can last past it’s lifespan. I’m not complaining, but I harvested Diana way later than I was supposed to. She smells like black pepper, pine, skunk, and fruit. Almost a pure caryophyllene smell though. Different kind of dank for sure. Only I wish she gave me more than a pinky sized root:sweat_smile: I may have big hands, but even so my fingers can’t be that much bigger than normal

MomOnTheRun · March 25, 2020, 8:54pm

ahhh that must have been when I thought you were in a 3x3 Now many use calculators and follow different formulations which are great though doesn’t take into account for a tent in a room that faces South, carbon filter drop etc. So lets do the math…

CFM = air volume x air exchange per min (1.33 to 5 - avg is 3) Sooooooo

CFM = (3x3x6) x 2
CFM= 54 x 3
CFM = 162

CFM = (4x4x6) x 2
CFM = 96 x 2
CFM = 192

These are your MINIMUM CFM’s Now to account for other environmental conditions…

Add:
25% tent in a room that faces South
25% room seperation
25% for up to 2 curls in a short duct
5% per HID or 2.5% per LED
20% carbon filter
25% High humidity
25% High temps (90F+)

From what I remember, you have 1 curl in the duct (25%), carbon filter (20%) and what? 9 leds running now (22.5%)

3x3x6 (I thought)
CFM Need: (162 x 25%) + (162 x 20%) + (162 x 22.5%) + 162
CFM Need: 40.5 + 32.4 + 36.45 + 162
CFM Need: 271.35

4x4x6 (actual)
CFM Need: (192 x 25%) + (192 x 20%) + (192 x 22.5%) + 192
CFM Need: 48 + 38.4 + 20.7 + 192
CFM Need: 299.1

That fan is 440 CFM’s so should be plenty either way unless I am missing something which I probably am

See? that puzzles me as humidity tends to rise in the dark period

Like I told you before, forget about humidity for the time being…your air flow should be cooling the tent by pulling cooler air in (even if its only 5F cooler than inside the tent, its still cooler), circulate a bit to give the plants co2 in the air outside of the tent and mix under the lights then pulled out of the room through the carbon filter. Humidity does not have anything to do with this process

She probably is at her last week so I would just ride it out on her…not much if anything can be done being at the very end of bloom and all

Essential stress: nutrients out of whack, cool temps, pissed off roots etc…slows them waaaayyyyy down even to the point of stunting tough many toe that line to push them. When they are happy, they don’t miss a beat even when doing an awful thing like topping

Example A: 6 wk old Colorado Cookies in a 2qt pot…just hit bud set and had her 1st dose of a bloom drench

Example B: 4 wk old Colorado Cookies in a 2 qt pot…almost done stretching

Now I am kicking myself for not having more room to put them in a 3 gallon pot

Ok so your homework is:

Figure out how many CFM’s you need using my math above
Get the Zmeans off of the floor…these are you heat creators so either suspend them so they are closer to your carbon filter hung 36" above the plants (leave the qb at 18") or remove them completely for now.
Open your bottom vent 12"…the one on the opposite side of the carbon filter
Run a circulation fan in between the canopy and the lights 24/7 on low
Ignore humidity

Edited to add:
Cover the top of the Lucky 7’s pots in (anything) plastic until they pop above the surface
As soon as Cotleydon’s show, get them 18" below the qb
Set extraction fan to Med/Hi
Ignore temp readings for 24 hrs while the tent stabilizes

OniTenshu · February 18, 2019, 6:17am

Okay. Zmeans pulled and I’m about to cover the lucky 7s in plastic wrap. Fan was put on medium after my last picture update. I opened the one on the same side the exhaust is directing as that’s the side opposite to the filter. Should I close the other side and just keep this one open?

As for the humidity problem I stopped truly caring a long time ago. It’s just a curious issue for me now. The low humidity may be one issue as they like to drink in dry environments, so that may be a compound issue there. More curious is after I let the tent get to 45f after I opened my window and then immediately closed all windows and turned my heat back on. I saw though that the humidity was higher when it was colder in the tent.

There no way my tent is defying natural order, so there’s something else happening I don’t understand. If it’ll help I’ll just do what you say.

MomOnTheRun · February 18, 2019, 6:41am

Your on it!

Close the other side so your fresh air is coming in going towards the Carbon scrubber and no where else

Gotcha

They do like to drink though not that much in soil with a lot of water holding properties… my humidity is low running 15-25% in my house. While plants are small, it does have an impact if there isn’t decent size ones around. This is were daily misting comes into play spraying only on their leaves once during day and one one during night with the extraction fan closer to your actual needed CFM’s so probably on low-medium so they don’t struggle to breath…its really important they grow their roots by searching for water. I get around 65% humidity doing this

As they get bigger with a healthy root system, they will create quite a bit of humidity through transpiration and will drink only what they need with less water being removed from the air especially when given a mulch (thick cover crop, newspaper, dead/dying leaves etc…the extraction fan gets turned up to med/high in the winter or high in summer. I get around 45% humidity doing this

No its not though there is something going on so beneficial adjustments are/were needed to figure it out…maybe it’ll self correct. Either way, once your tent is dialed in you’ll get better plant responses then its just a matter of small tweaks here/there…its getting it dialed in that can be frustrating at times so we look at the biggest problem 1st then prioritize from there

OniTenshu · March 22, 2020, 2:06am

Okay, so all the tasks you told me to do are done. Rearranged the plants for best light coverage. Especially with Zelda so spread out now.

New spots

The fan I’m not sure what you mean TBH. I never removed it from the tent. did you mean the essential oil diffuser I’m using as a fan only with no oils or anything in it?

The humidity is already climbing now and temp dropping, so the zmeans were a part if not the whole issue I’ve been dealing with.

ModicumGenes · March 3, 2019, 1:32am

I dont remember if i told you or not but the cross i sent you shouldn’t expect it to be auto. i just learned that crossing an auto with a photo you get a 75 photo to 25 percent auto chance due to breeding probability. so it would be some that was fully auto with the cross some you wouldnt know until finishing time it may be a week earlier or later due to mixing photo and auto. put in your mind the platnium glue auto x blue zkittlez is a photo with a fast finish so far.

OniTenshu · February 18, 2019, 8:02am

I’ll be watching her closely once she starts flower. She does look like she’s already in it though right? It’s strange, but either way I’m going to flip to 12/12 once the lucky 7s are ready.

ModicumGenes · February 18, 2019, 8:05am

yeah she does and i have been watching as you can see lol. i was just warning you that the auto trait doesn’t always pass dominant when crossing with photos either way im learning as well. i ll know which to pick to go into my F2 gen