Nigerian Haze ~f1 isolation/preservation Project

[ThePotanist]

There are commercial companies that will check this pretty cheaply for you.

University services will be tricky depending on where you are. Some are not interested on touching anything Cannabis and others you will need to send new leaf tissue with low THC or they won’t work with you.

You could count ploidy though with a microscope. You just need something that stains chromatin and a light microscope with a 100x objective. Ive done this multiple times in multiple classes. Its a lab we have intro genetics students do also, if those people can anyone can

[StoneGuru]

Thank you @ThePotanist . Asking the right question in the right way has everything to do with the answer. It seems like the easiest way to proceed on elimination or inclusion of the genetics I am working with. I didn’t realize a small scope would be sufficient.

[ThePotanist]

Yeah! People often forget genetics was a discipline for years before sequencing became affordable. I got my light microscope on Amazon for around $90. Same model my lab at school has and better than the ones they let intro students use. It was a demo sales model but was really well cleaned before I bought it. If you are patient, you will be able to find some killer deals.

If you have any questions about it or the staining, let me know. Outside of research microscopy is a hobby of mine and I am always constantly staining and checking roots for mycorrhizae

[Magu]

I know the entire OG community will benefit from these discussions.

[StoneGuru]

One thing I’ve observed with all of these anomalies is that they will come and go at various stages of growth in extreme ways. Some stay, some go. There is nothing consistent, but there are patterns within each make. For example.

The Silk S x Soulmate is half the plant. Every form of meristem oddity, but always half. Half each leaf or half of each node etc…

My question: does the living sample need to be from the part of the plant that the mutation is taking place or will a cell sample from any portion and stage of the cultivar have the same chromosome count?

[TopicalWave]

Very interesting stuff.

I am not educated enough to contribute or honestly absorb too much without a background in botany, but I am happy to take a stump and listen.

Glad you showed up to OG and really appreciate the dono to my upcoming auction.

[StoneGuru]

Nigerian Haze #1 (Blazers Collection)

It is very beneficial to document the early traits, (~before node 6) for later correspondence.

The mutations are known in both Nigerian Silk and Nevil’s 5haze and all ng with the other physical traits make it possible to more accurately differentiate Nigerian Silk from 5haze.

Beyond organics is the only one who has been working with the Nigerian Silk line work in ongoing capacity. Discussion and pictures (below) have been very helpful in working toward the 5haze isolations like Silk S and Buzzsaw male as well as the Alpine 1.0

So far #1 is dominant in Nigerian Silk traits on numerous traits.

The real value of this work to me is that it was a direct outcross from the original pack to equatorial NLD… This is similar to Nevil’s final work in the Outback haze of Selecting the toward his male A from 122 plants. 2 were selected. out to Hempy’s '78 Thai and back to NH.

I have had the privilege to run an Outback F2 from Dwight Diottas selection. He was one of Nevil’s closest friends and selected down from the largest collection of the line. It was one of the most exceptional haze lines I have run for a long time and was a successful process imo

The Nigerian Haze wasn’t as methodical but similarly. The most NLD male of original 5haze (male C). Out to Nigerian NLD…

This project is demonstrating the process of working toward isolations. Note the smooth serration and generally smooth taper on the Nigerian Silk , offset petioles etc.

[Emeraldgreen]

I’ll be sitting with you at your stump

[StoneGuru]

. It may be awhile. There are a few factors that might effect this. Mostly what is found. Right now we are working with one pack. 4 of the first 5 look as though they will establish from the embryo rescue.

There is another individual who has a couple pack of Nigerian Haze and may become a collaborator in the project. He attempted to germinate a pack recently and it was under 50%. He is skilled at germination. We are currently 80% with the extra precautions. In either event viability of the line is in rapid decline and it is time to do the work.

Theoretically having a line closer to origin (parents) would be more accurate representation of either, but not necessarily. The best representations are generally subsequent fgen outliers. There is also the potential of pulling more Nevil’s traits forwards with one such as Silk S. A Nevil’s dominant line.

Another differentiating quality is intersex traits. Nevils is extraordinarily stable while Nigerian Silk only somewhat. Some plants will be stable while others not. It is absolutely possible to overcome this. The 88 had as much as 15% inters x to some degree. By selecting the 2 Nevil’s outliers (Silk S and Buzzsaw). All defining traits of Nevil’s were pulled all the way forward from deeper within the line. Intersex was only mild in less than 1% of the line at over 100 testers.

So. This will be on ongoing project that may not really have the firework going off till the next generation.

One of the goals of this project is to demonstrate how breeding backwards to accurate examples of the ancestors is possible and that even dominant traits can become completely recessive in this process. Basically restoration

The implications are important because many times the endeavors to improve a line are later found to be folly.

[StoneGuru]

I ran a couple sourced packs of Nigerian Landrace awhile back. Nigeria is a big country separated by time and collections…either way this is an atypical leaf. I will often run landraces that are within my line of interest around the perimeter. At the very least it serves as reference.

[Tykal]

Spoke with Joe, glad you’re working together! Btw, I heard recently that White Rabbit’s Nigerian Haze cut is supposedly JJ’s original breeder cut. Dunno if it’s true but here’s a janky picture of the bud.

Decent potency, decent creep.

Hope the rescue keeps moving in a positive direction!

[StoneGuru]

He is a really good guy. A lot in common. This Nigerian Haze looks really nice! Thicker sandy trichomes that remind me of 5haze. The flower I had that was said to be that same cut didn’t carry the piercing conifer top notes or the frankincense base…it was something like incense but maybe more floral like potpourri. It could have been different though. How would you describe this one on profile?

[Tykal]

Yeah I don’t have a lot of info on the cut, but supposed to get more soon, so I’ll relay what I find. Aroma/taste profile isn’t really something I care about or pay much attention to, unless it’s offputting (can’t stand gassy strains, chems or sours), so I’m generally 99.87% focused on effect. That said, I do enjoy a soapy haze and appreciate the cedar and pine scents when they show up. I’ll give it another go and see if I can pull out some notes for you. On the effect, I’d say it has a similar potency, presence and directionality of the high to the Silk, but with the dial turned down a fair amount.

[StoneGuru]

99.87%. That’s some lazer focus only a haze can induce Brother😂

[Tykal]

Lol, you know it.

[StoneGuru]

One of the markers that differentiated Nigerian Silk from Nevil’s 5haze early on was the wooly pistils of Silk S.

R noted that he had never seen it in the Nigerian Silk.

Hawaiian Breeze would later note this trait in his Simply Irresistible find. Both Silk S and his Simply irresistible share the same haze ancestors and an extremely distinctive frankincense which is likely high ocimene.

[Magu]

Hey @dx4 . I have a short question. I hope it doesnt seem stupid. I have a polyhybrid that I have been breeding for 10 + years. I always get at least 1 male that declares itself to be male and then produces a few female flowers. These males are completely covered with resin glands. The females are all completely normal. I get this same outcome when crossing the male to its sisters or when back crossing to the original “ Ghost Train Haze # 1”. Is this an example of what you are describing as the mutation being passed only through the males?

[Magu]

@StoneGuru . I have often wondered if it was possible to take a plant and “breed backward” as you say. I am only a “pollen chucker” but that idea seems completely plausible to me.

[StoneGuru]

It would probably take many thousands of plants to really develop, but I believe it is equally as possible to target traits backwards as forwards. Neither is perfect, but the former has the advantage of a reference point.

For me it started with observations rather than ideas.
The recurrence of selecting over generations and then suddenly there will be a plant that is identical or very near identical in everyway to a parent a decade ago or 5 gen back. As if everything that went into it recent crosses becomes recessive. Skipping multiple generations in the form of an outlier.

I’m just running with these observations and the back drop of experience I have while keeping open to new information. It is the framework of where I apply all of my time and resources because it is working so far and or adding knowledge.

So far the greatest success in this was crossing the 2 outliers in the 88 to make Alpine 1.0. the line as a whole was not good. Most of the plants I didn’t even try smoking. It was consistent with the Ammonia catpiss Nevil noted in inbred haze lines.

A few observations came out of that cross that do not align with common linear breeding perspectives. These perspectives are mostly from continually selecting the same traits of parents, not playing off the variable of the outliers which is central to the concept.

Both parents. Silk S and Buzzsaw were definitely outliers and had Nevil’s haze traits which were within the line, but not forward in this line or the other Nigerian Haze lines I ran aside from perhaps trichome production. If anything it was selected toward the Nigerian Silk side.

Also consider how long did it take for the original 5haze to become completely unrecognizably altered once it left Nevil’s keep. 1 year? A single cross, 2? Why wouldn’t the opposite be possible? Also consider the stage Nevil found his Male A and C. It was said that haze had already lost its spark. I believe there are cycles that are beyond the linear one generation at a time sequence.

The cross resulted in a very Nevil’s haze dominant line across many visual markers as well as profiles. The cross was completely different than the line it came from. The intersex traits were nearly wiped out. It effectively moved the whole prior population into recessive.

Vigor was increased through the cross. This was line work and generally we have the preconceptions that this would be neutral or a loss rather than an increase.

There are numerous other aspects and observations, but I don’t like wasting my time and outlier selection to revive ancestral traits is proving effective enough to give it my full confidence and years of practice.

[StoneGuru]

This project is real time and I don’t know the outcome, but the intention is to demonstrate outlier breeding to ancestral traits or make a fool of my self in the process😂