Bought one pack pre-98 and messaged him regarding his breeding plans for future as I was very intrigued by a true pre-98 auto (in fact I’ve been talking with mephisto about if for over a year now) Dax informed me he couldn’t reveal his plans as there are “too many out there trying to get rich off of his hard work”
Have not contacted him since nor looked at another pack. Definitely not surprised by this BS, what a douche
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Working with someone else’s work is a very sincere form of flattery.
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It’d be different if I was gonna chuck their work and sell it 
looking at you sunshine dream genetics and mms 
Edit: im all out of likes for the morning 
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was it the z or c ??
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It was The Z @Kami
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Yep. Done it lots. 
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did you grow it?? I think that is one of the packs I bought and something with a uv light label
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Ohhh yeah any tips to offer, can all plants be germinated at the same time or staggered ?
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I have not…. YET
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Full Disclosure—I’m a Night Owl fan.
I get people’s consternation in the auto world or in the photo world when they’ve had to create strains through multiple levels of breeding—and then all of that work is taken in one single cross. I appreciate this community’s ethics of “Overgrow the World,” but this doesn’t pay a creator’s bills. There is likely a better balance to strike than the one being advocated by Daz, but if you worked on a project for a few years and then someone else started monetizing said projects before you (he has released few chem crosses to his regulars yet), you’d have some sort of non-positive feelings. Obviously, he took this risk in distributing the seeds before he could get crosses to the market, so that’s why he needs to figure out an appropriate balance IMHO. This is in no way a defense of his expression of his feelings, just that most of us would feel similarly if seed making was how you made your living.
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If he doesn’t want the genetics getting out don’t share or sell them. It really is as simple as that… people who try to dictate what happens to already payed for products are loonies.
He is doing just fine and I am not worried about his livelihood being infringed upon whatsoever…
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Pop in 2 sets. The 1st are the plants you want to reverse, and the 2nd are the plants to be seeded.
These 2 stages are staggered 3 weeks apart.
Start you set 1, and once you havetrve leaves start spraying down the plants with STS ever 3 days turning lights are off or take them out from light exposure as STS is photosensitive.
I leave autos on 24/0 so I have a box and turn off my light to save power.
When you spray, I suggest getting a large box or lay down newsprint and saturate the plant(s) and then let them dry out in the dark. I use a box covered in a sheet and usually takes 2hrs for it to be dry and i can toss it back into the tent.
Keep going for 3 weeks, which is when you will START set 2.
At this point set 1 should have started flowering and you can keep on doing the every 3 day soak until you see pistils with balls. But then you may already have this. Once I start seeing the 
I stop soaking.
The three week stagger has worked every time, 100% of the time.
Actually, I’m doing this right now with photo period First Class Funk plants and the 3 weeks under 12/12 with STS every 3 days has made for a very impressive looking pollen producer. It’s light’s off now so I can’t share an image until tonight.
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I figured the staggered was the way to go I was guessing 2 weeks but i wont dispute the proof. I’ll do it at 21 days. Thank you for all the detailed explanation.
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I’m going to politely disagree with you here; he sold regular seeds at a higher price than his normal offerings. ($50 for a 3 pack with no freebies and never an extra seed in the pack) He wanted to make money and he did, but now he’s upset that people breed with these genetics. Sounds like someone wants to have their cake and eat it too
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We shouldn’t assume to know his financial situation—or anyone’s situation we aren’t more familiar with. I think he just had to take a day job. He reported the starting salary at $80k with opportunity for growth, so I don’t think you are wrong that he has money that makes him stable effective as of January 5, 2024. But it didn’t come from his years of producing seeds that many in the community appreciate to the point that the threat on this thread isn’t “I’m never using Night Owl again,” but instead, “I’m going to really steal his work now!”
If you dislike his ethics, then don’t use his work either. But, I suspect that his top quality genetics will keep people’s ethics twisted on this thread. Meaning, people would rather take someone’s genetics from someone they believe to be ethically compromised, instead of creating their own auto creations from scratch (because why dedicate those two years when you can take that time from others, right?). I guess the ethic is “two wrongs make a right”? -
If you look at the “auto breeders” using his work, I’ve not seen a single one advertise an auto they’ve converted from photo—because they are using Daz’s talent and time for that purpose and making money on it. We need to recognize when “share the seed” becomes “rip off hard working breeders who are helping progress the genetics of the community.”
Autoflower conversions take work—and those who won’t do them but use other breeders’ work should be seen as problematic because these are people who are taking for monetary gain and not giving back to the community anything by pollen chucks for cash.
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Maybe I’m missing something, but it sounded to me like OP was complaining that Night Owl was banning people making seeds and distributing them for free?
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I know he does more work than many to make his autos than many breeders (I think its the f4 gen thats auto stable if I remember right?), but to say someone is ethically compromised for giving away beans they made themselves to share with the community isnt right IMO. I think we are talking about two different things btw. Directly f2ing someones work and selling it isnt ok, but his seeds are expensive especially considering they are autos… its absolutely natural that people may not want to pay 70 for five plants every run IMO and its not the greatest look getting upset about it IMO.
I may have assumed he was doing well as his 70$ packs seem to pretty much sell out and the next most popular auto dude after Mephisto. That’s a lot of cheese anyways its sliced. Some people eat lots of cheese everyday though… maybe he only eats the expensive french stuff.
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I feel similarly. I’ve been in the small business world a long time, and in the US for a full time employee with any reasonable benefits, an employee costs a small business about as much behind the scenes as they pay in wages. If Daz is self-employed without setting up a full small business, it’s at least as costly. His production choices look like costs are high too - I’ve priced out custom stickers in bulk for my employer. If he got an epic inside deal on a large order there’s still no way they were under 50cents each, and there were at least 5 in my order. Didn’t get down to letter mail cost either, so that’s $3.90. Plus the custom box, the custom seed packet, the printed labels, and someone’s time to assemble it all and put the right address on it. I do that for work too, it takes an unexpectedly large amount of time. Great stuff for plants isn’t cheap. I think his overhead is much more significant than most would realize.
That doesn’t make it okay to be a dick.
However, I would like to actually see the conversation before villifying him. Please share “proof” as offered OP. I would also prefer to hear directly from @Rinsewarrior13, who has only barely been active on here, and also give a chance for response from Daz before condemning him.
I don’t see any drama on Reddit right now. U/rinsewarrior has posts still up in that community. They don’t directly violate the community rule not to sell or trade seeds. Can you please clarify whether Rinse was selling Night Owl crosses?
I don’t have Instagram - but is @Rinsewarrior13 selling his crosses on there? Because his posts definitely made me think so. If so, if still isn’t okay to be a dick, but I’d understand the anger.
@SubzeroIceKold some things you’ve said in the past had also made me think you intended to create some of your own work based on Daz’s and sell it. Can you please clarify your own intentions with the crosses you’ve been making? It’s your right to do whatever with them, but I think it’s relevant to the conversation.
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If he’s in it for the money and trying to make seed production his full-time job, he’s on his way to financial ruin anyway. Seed vendors have had it easy in the past for the same reason black market dealing used to be highly profitable - the more illegal it is, the more people are willing to pay you for the risk you’re taking for them. I doubt there are going to be many who can make breeding their full-time job once federal legalization comes, and those who do will definitely not achieve it by controlling their fanbase with an iron fist. Look at Bodhi’s fanbase - he openly encourages people to breed with his seeds, only asking them not to sell them unless they’ve put in significant work. Seems like Bodhi’s open attitude is something Night Owl has taken advantage of, in fact:
Other than Bodhi, I’m finding a whole lot of Mephisto genetics in his work. Sucks that he’s making less money, but getting all hypocritical about “his” genetics and alienating what fanbase he has is not going to help, quite obviously. If anything, it’s going to destroy him even quicker. People who miss his genetics can just buy Bodhi or Mephisto, I guess. 
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He worked on the Mephisto Skywalker project and he converted Bodhi’s work through 4 generations. That doesn’t seem like he is being hypocritical. If you’ve run Wizard’s Apprentice, you will see how much exceptional work he put into that conversion and know it wasn’t some random pollen chuck.
It’s not uncommon to have inventors with different beliefs regarding the value they should derive from their creative work (e.g., Tesla vs. Edison). I don’t think we should villainize someone for falling on the Edison side of that invention debate because someone values their own work more than some of their customers (as long as they aren’t just using other people’s work and calling it their own, as Edison did).
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