is that what they call us? Iām a fan. Been using it a couple grows now, and itās a better flower formula than anything I can do with Jackās/Peterās.
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hopefully hahahahā¦
had this chat with my brother aboout foodā¦ Imma food is food kinda guyā¦ and why buy waterā¦was taught early if it grows tomatoes it will grow the herbā¦
master blend grows some tomatoesā¦lots of em rows upon rows of them bitchesā¦so it will grow some weed for meā¦ I like its 3 part whereas i can play with itā¦
I use almost no CaNO4 in the flower none in the last 3 weeks, inexpensive for what it doesā¦
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Hereās is his recipe I believe
Yes jacks lingo can sound alittle complicated and none of your questions are stupid. I asked the same ones when I started using jacks. So 5-12-26 is now called part A. 15-0-0 is part b. I run 3 grams of part a and 2.5 grams of part b to one gallon of ro water. No epsom needed. I run this from rooted clone to finish. I do add .5 gram of mkp per gallon starting around week 2.5 or so of flower to finish. You donāt need any mag supplements with this recipe. I Havnt tried Any of their new mixes. My ec is right around 1.75 with part a and b.
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Source: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=31505
How to make your own nutrient solutions
Many growers buy pre-made concentrates of fertilizer. They add so many mililiters to a gallon of water. These fertilizers are very expensive. You can make your own nutrient solutions from scratch very easily and it is alot of fun. To do this will require a gram scale accurate to .1 gram and a calculator.When you see the numbers 10-10-10 on a fertilizer bag, they represent 10% nitrogen, 10% phosphorus with oxygen, and 10% potassium with oxygen. To convert the phosphate with oxygen to just pure phosphorus, you multiply by .43 This would really be only 4.3% phosphorus. To convert potassium with oxygen to just pure potassium, you would multiply by .83 This would really be only 8.3% potassium. (.43 x .1=.043 and .83 x .1=.083)
You will have to learn parts per million (ppm). 1 gram or 1000 milligrams of a pure element in 1 liter of water is 1000 parts per million (ppm) For example, I put 500 milligrams of pure nitrogen into 1 liter of water so that would be 500 ppm nitrogen.
Having these weights, measurements, and basic math will be handy:
inverse of a number is 1 divided by the number so inverse .2=5 that would be 1 divided by .2=5
100%=1 so 50% would be .5
3.8 liters of water=1 gallon
128 ounces(oz)=1 gallon
454 grams=1 pound
1000 milligrams (mg)=1 gram(g)
2 tablespoons=1 ounce=6 teaspoonsPlants require the macronutrients(require alot) nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, calcium, magnesium, and sulfur to grow. They also require the micronutrients (require very little) iron, manganese, zinc, copper, boron, molybdenum, and chlorine to grow.
Common ranges in nutrient solutions for these elements are in parts per million: nitrogen 100-200, phosphorus 30-50, potassium 100-200, calcium 100-200, magnesium 30-70, sulfur 50, iron 2-12, manganese .5-2, zinc .05-.1, copper .01-.1, boron .2-.4, molybdenum .05, and chloride 5.
There are hundreds of nutrient solutions to try and copy. There are so many because most of them work. If plants only grew with one type of nutrient solution or soil, the planet would have few plants. Hoaglandās nutrient solution, named after Dr. Hoagland at the University of California, is probably the most famous. I am going to explain how to make Johnsonās nutrient solution. It works well with indoor plants in medium light intensity. It is in parts per million:
105 nitrogen(n), 33 phosphorusĀ§, 138 potassium(k), 85 calcium(ca), 25 magnesium(mg), 33 sulfur(s), 2.3 iron(fe), .26 manganese(mn), .024 zinc(zn), .01 copper(cu), .23 boron(b), and .007 molybdenum(mo)
You would need the following ingredients to make this:
monopotassium phosphate 0-52-34
potassium nitrate 13-0-44
calcium nitrate 15.5-0-0 plus 19% calcium
magnesium sulfate/epsom salts 10% magnesium and 13% sulfur
Each of the micronutrients with iron, manganese, zinc, and copper chelated with maybe edta to keep them soluble and not oxidize. Compound 111 by Scotts is an example of a micronutrient mix you could use that would contain all the micronutrients rather than weigh them out individually.You can find all the ingredients by checking around town at hydro stores and garden centers to save shipping on bags. You could also get the individual micronutrients from www.hydro-gardens.com They would also have the major elements as well.
To start, you will want to figure out phosphorus. We will use the monopotassium phosphate (0-52-34) 33 ppm p (33 mg in 1 liter of water) x the inverse of .22 Remember we had to convert 52% phosphorus on the fertilizer bag to real p by multiplying by .43 The inverse is 1 divided by the number (your calculator may have a x-1 key; .22 x-1 key). So, inverse .22=4.5 33 x inverse .22=150 mg per liter of monopotassium phosphate. For 1 gallon, multiply by 3.8 So, 570 milligrams(mg) or .5 grams(g) would be added.
We also added potassium with our phosphorus. To find out how much just work backwards. 570 mg divided by 3.8=150 mg x .28 (notice that this is not the inverse; we had to multiply 34% potassium with oxygen to pure potassium by multiplying by .83; .83 x 34=.28) so 150 mg x .28=42 ppm potassium was added.
Our nutrient solution requires more potassium(k). 138k-42k=96 ppm k still needed. We will use potassium nitrate(13-0-44) for this. Remember to convert the 44% to pure potassium by multiplying by .83=36.5% pure 96k x inverse .365=263 milligrams in a liter of water. For a gallon, 263 x 3.8=999 milligrams or about 1 gram of potassium nitrate.
We also added nitrogen with our additional potassium. Just work backwards. 1020mg divided by 3.8=263 x .13 (13%nitrogen)=34 ppm nitrogen
We still need more nitrogen(n). 105n-34n=71 ppm n still needed. So we will use the calcium nitrate (15.5-0-0 plus 19%calcium) now. 71 ppm x inverse .155=458 milligrams or about .5 grams in 1 liter of water. For a gallon, 458mg x 3.8=1740 mg or 1.7 grams of calcium nitrate.
If you work backwards like before you will see that we also added 87 ppm calcium with the nitrogen.
Next magnesium using the magnesium sulfate/epsom salts.(10% magnesium and 13% sulfur). 25 ppm x inverse .1=250 mg in a liter. For a gallon, 250mg x 3.8=950 milligrams or about 1 gram of epsom salts.
If you work backwards like before you will see that we also added 33 ppm sulfur with the magnesium.
Those fertilizers with multiple elements in them are tricky. The rest of the nutrient solution is easier. It uses individual elements for the micronutrients.
iron: I have an iron chelate 13% fe. I want 2.3 ppm iron. 2.3 x inverse .13=17 mg per liter. To find a gallon, 17 x 3.8=67 milligrams or .067 grams of the iron chelate.
For the rest of the micronutrients, your source of these might be boric acid(17%b), manganese chelate(13%mn), zinc chelate(15%zn), copper chelate(14%cu), and molybdic acid(50%mo). You would do the math just like the ironā¦its straightforward.
boron: We want .23 ppm boron(b) x inverse .17(from boric acid 17%b)=1.35 mg per liter. For a gallon, 1.35 x 3.8=5.14 mg or .005 g boric acid.
manganese: We want .26 ppm manganese(mn) x inverse .13(from mn chelate 13%mn)=2 mg per liter For a gallon, 2 x 3.8=7.6 mg or .0076 grams mn chelate.
For the molybdenum, you will use very little. .007 ppm mo x inverse .5(from molybdic acid 50%mo)=.014 mg per liter. For a gallon, .014 mg x 3.8=.05 mg or .00005 g. This is so small and that is why the microās are in a stock concentrate (iāll explain stocks later) . If you make your stock for 64 gallons, .05mg x 64 gallons=3.2mg or .003 grams. What you could do is take .1 gram or 100mg molybdic acid in 8 oz of water(1 cup) and then put 11/2 teaspoons out of this into your 64 gallon stock. (6 teaspoons=1 ounce) .003 g divided by .1 g=.03 so .03 x 8 ounces=.24 ounces
Zinc and copper are also used in small quantitys like molybdenum. Put like .1 gram or 100 milligrams of each of the chelates into 8 ounces of water just like what we did with the molybdenum. Then add some out of this into your stock.
zinc: .024 ppm x inverse .15 (zinc chelate 15%zn)=.16 mg per liter. For a gallon, .16 x 3.8=.6 mg For 64 gallon stock .6 mg x 64=38.4 mg So you could put .1 gram or 100 milligrams into 8 ounces of water(1 cup) and then take 38.4mg/100mg x 8=3.07 ounces into your stock jug.
Copper(cu) is ādouble dilutedā like zinc and molybdenum were. We want .01 ppm cu x inverse .14 (from copper chelate 14%cu)=.07 mg per liter. For a gallon, .07mg x 3.8=.27 mg of copper chelate. To add this to a 64 gallon stock of micronutrients: .27mg x 64 gal=17 mg or .017 grams. Put .1 gram or 100 milligrams of cu chelate in 8 ounces of water. Then add 17mg/100mg x 8 ounces=1.36 ounces of this into the 64 gallon micro stock.
Although not in the formula, plants require a small amount of chlorine to grow. You can add 2 ppm chloride by using table salt in with your micronutrients. Table salt is 60% chloride. 2 ppm x inverse .6=3.3 mg per liter For 1 gallon, 3.3 mg x 3.8=12.5 mg or .01 grams
Weighing the fertilizer takes some time. It is best to get 3 quantity of 1 gallon milk jugs or bottled water containers and make a stock. This is just concentrated fertilizer. Put the calcium nitrate in 1 jug, micronutrients in another, and everything else in the last jug. You will not have to weigh fertilizer all the time. The micronutrients especially have to be made into a stock because so little is used. It would take an expensive scale to measure out the micronutrients for just 1 gallon. Making the concentrates strong enough to make 64 gallons of finished nutrient solution makes things easy. Then when you would need to make 1 gallon, you would add 2 ounces out of each stock. For example, we wanted 1.7 grams of calcium nitrate in 1 gallon of water. You would make a stock 1.7g x 64 gallons=109 grams of calcium nitrate in your stock jug. So each 2 ounces of stock would contain 1.7 grams calcium nitrate. If you wanted to reduce your nutrient solution to 3/4 strength(79 ppm n), you would only use 1.5 ounces per gallon of water out of each stock. If you wanted to raise the strength to 1 1/2 times(158 ppm n) you would add 3 ounces per gallon of water out of each stock.
You can make adjustments to the nutrient solution by just reducing or raising the total strength of all the fertilzers used from each stock. You would want 3/4 strength for seedlings(79 ppm n) and 1 1/2 times strength(158 ppm n) for extra growth. The micronutrients used for this formula are weak except iron. You could easily double the amount used except for maybe iron. My micros in soilless mix are: fe 1.1 mn .6 zn .17 cu .1 b .3 mo .05 I have iron already in my water so it could be higher in different water like 2 ppm fe. For flowering, you could just reduce nitrogen to 75 ppm and not all the elements. To do this easily, just use less calcium nitrate at the end of getting all the nitrogen for the solution. If you do the math, you will see that it would be 1 gram instead of 1.7 grams in a gallon of water. Simply reduce the amount you use from your stock jug by 1/1.7 or 59%. If full strength calcium nitrate was 2 ounces out of your stock for 1 gallon of nutrient solution, you would only use 1.17 ounces. Of course reducing nitrogen like this would also lower your calcium. Powdered gypsum (calcium sulfate) could be substituted for some or all of the calcium required instead of calcium nitrate which adds nitrogen.
It is best to double check all your math for errors. Also, make sure you have included all the elements required and not left something out like a micronutrient.
A note to soilless media growers using dolomite lime in their mixes for ph controlā¦you would not want to use this nutrient solution because it contains alot of calcium and magnesium that is not required. A way to get around this would be to use very little lime like 1/2 teaspoon to a 6" diameter pot or 2 tablespoons per cubic foot of soil and get the calcium and magnesium through the nutrient solution. Because of national security, we are no longer able to get ammonium nitrate and are forced to get some of the nitrogen from calcium nitrate. So, the trend will be to use little lime.
Growers using hydroponics with a reservoir: Plants will use water/fertilizer and the level will drop. You can monitor the electical conductivity(ec) of the nutrient solution to know how strong this water plus fertilizer to be added back should be. Just compare original ec to current ec. Then raise the ec to original levels with the nutrients/water. Micronutrients should not be included in this. A rule of thumb would be to use 1/4 to 1/3 strength nutrient solution without micronutrients to top off the reservoir. In time (few weeks), it would be wise to completely replace the solution in the reservoir and start with fresh nutrient solution.
You will want to adjust the ph of the nutrient solution to 6 or slightly lower. Hereās a link for what to use:https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=31294
Now that you understand the basic way to make a nutrient solution, you could copy any formula or make your own unique recipe. If you make your own recipe, use the common ranges previously listed for the elements and try to maybe achieve these ratios: 1.5-2:1 potassium to calcium and 3-4:1 calcium to magnesium. Also, use as much nitrate nitrogen as possible rather than ammonia or urea nitrogen. You could do things like raise phosphorus during flowering if desired and make a ābloom boosterā. If you ran into an iron deficiency, you could raise just iron levels. Once I raised my manganese levels from .55 ppm to .65 ppm and called it my āI canāt drive 55ā formula. (Sammy Hagar song) Remember, you are in complete control.
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Where the hell were you yesterday before I did my rez change???
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Do you experience nitrogen toxiticity with Jacks? If you did, what did you do to rectify it?
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Iām using masterblend at the 2tsp of each per 5 gallon. If I were to switch one tsp of MKP for one tsp of the MB ferts what would that give me for a NPK ratio.
Thanks for any help!
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Iām not sure Iād recommend it. I had a few grows with good success using MB. But now Iām growing some sativas and Lebanese that are really complaining about it and I canāt figure out why.
I thought it looked like N tox, but when I dropped down the N using MKP and potassium sulfate, bad things happened. Lots of brown spots came up on the leaves (seems like Ca deficiency). As far as PPMs, the only difference should have been lower N and higher S, as I was trying to keep everything else the same. But now my thinking is that N was not the issueā¦ Iām just stumped.
Seems like some strains really donāt like the MB formula. My first efforts to adjust the mix has been a failure.
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Iām still using the original amount of calcium nitrate. Iām trying to hit a 1-3-3 NPK ratio. Just for a couple waterings then Iāll drop the calcium nitrate and just run the MB alone.
Iāve been running the original formula on some autos. Second time with MB. Iām outside so the water evaporates so quick I only run 500ppm of nutes and water a lot.
Have you just dropped the ppm and not the formula. I think they may be fine with never changing formula through the whole grow cycle. Just different ppm.
Idk if someone can run that through HydroBuddy for me!
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Well what happened to me was that the formula seemed to work just fine on some indicas and hybrids my first grows with it. I think things that are medium-heavy feeders are pretty happy with it.
But now, I am growing some sativas, which turned really dark green and seemed to be complaining. Then I added some Lebanese, and some of those got real pissy and super dark green. So I tried to take out some MB and replace it with MKP and potassium sulfate, but that only caused more problems.
Iām gonna finish out my grow with Peters again in the regular 321 mix, before I dig myself into a deeper hole with the MB. Sometime soon, Iām gonna convert over to ebb and flow too, so I might not have a final verdict on MB in coco.
I think NH4 nitrogen might be the issue, and might be a source of problems in coco. I wonder if it being a cation causes buildup in the coco media, which later causes tox. If I werenāt switching to coco, I might consider mixing my own NH4-free nutrients with a similar profile to MB.
Also, I havenāt tried it yet, but @GramTorino method of using cal prime with 5-11/12-26 might be the best solution, because it lowers both total N and substantially lowers NH4.
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sorry to hear that about MBā¦ love that shit.
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Do you use it in soil? I think MB is probably pretty awesome in soil. Thereās not a lot of information about NH4 and coco coir, but my suspicion is that it doesnāt work very wellā¦
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ima DWC kinda fellahā¦ I saw you were in coirā¦ that shit is okay but it dose lend to problemsā¦ grow rocks water fertā¦some air im good
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Ah ok, yea coir def has itās own share of ups and downs. Iāve done some test grows with something similar to DWC hydro in the past and was really impressed. I just got an ebb&flow 2 gallon bucket setup that Iām going to try out pretty soonā¦ hopefully it will work as well. I grow some leafy vegetables in DWC, and they love it. I barely even pay attention to it, but twice a month to see if thereās still water and if the EC is too low.
Iāll probably get back to using the MB in the hyrdo system. Iāve got 25lbs of 5-11-26 and probably 4lbs of MB, so that should be enough for me to try them both.
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Are you using any MKP?
Can you tell me your feed schedule? Do you drop N. Or do you run it the same all the way throughout.
Any tips would be appreciated. Thanks.
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MB 2.4 g stir
CN 2.4 g stir
MS 1.2 g stir
per gallon of waterā¦ ph it when done.
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All the way through flower? No change. Iām cool with that. Just thought I should drop nitrogen.
Thanks again!
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I wouldnāt add MKP. Unless you balance out the Ca, which usually means adding more calcium nitrate, MKP only causes Ca deficiency. I tried to use it by reducing MB and combining with potassium sulfate and TM7, and still got Ca deficiency.
Iād say leave it alone, especially if youāre not having any issues. Besides, I now think NO3- nitrogen is not the issueā¦ itās the NH4+ nitrogen that seems to cause problems.
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Shouldā¦nah no should but thats up to you. Yah you can feed them till you cut em down.
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