Re-Dried Seeds 0 to 100% Germination

Advanced Techniques
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I can’t find any discussion on problems with seeds being too fresh, but I know that I have seen a couple in the past. A few months ago I made a seed run with a Texada Northern Lights male and a Turkish Delight female. The plants were in good condition all through seed development and I made sure to let them ripen to the point where the calyxes were brown and the seeds dark.

Being proud of my batch of babies I thought I better do a germ test after letting them sit for awhile to dry out 100%. My first test was not good at all and I was definitely surprised. I then put some seeds in the refrigerator for a month and gave them a test. The germ rate was only marginally better.

I then took some of the seeds that didn’t germinate (after at least a week) and re-dried them. Then they were left for a couple months in the basement. They weren’t kept in the dark, but the temperature was generally around 17C.

A couple days ago I put these seeds in the same conditions that they were originally exposed to and in just 48 hours had 100% germination. Even the seed without a tail visible is cracked and ready to go.

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So why am I bothering with a post about this? Well, it sure makes you reconsider the importance of seed stratification depending on the genetics you’re using. I know that Kevin Jodrey mentioned that cultivars that originated from higher latitudes generally have a more difficult time re-vegging because they must be programmed to finish before it’s too late, where near the equator it’s not nearly as important a trait. I had taken some of these seeds and scattered them on the snow in the winter and I got some plants coming up in the spring by themselves. They are definitely indica dominant and would most likely have genetics that developed above 35 degrees. In the fall, it is not in the best interest of the seedling to germinate. In many places where the genetics originated, there would be quite a bit of rain and moist conditions before it got to freezing temperatures. I have only thought of cold as being the important factor in seed stratification, but now I would consider a short soak and a re-drying period for seeds that exhibit this kind of stubbornness. I don’t think it means that they’re bad seeds, just that they have maintained a more secure strategy to deal with the conditions in the natural world and not be fooled into germinating in the fall.

Again, I would never do this as routine procedure unless I knew that it would benefit a specific IBL or cross, but I would love to hear from others about their experience with seeds that are “too fresh”, as well as their stratification techniques, if any.

As a side note, almost all the Turkish Delight seeds were already cracked when I got them. They germinated fine, but I did send an email to ask about it and they responded by saying that it was common with that strain… I really doubt this now, as I’m thinking that they did it on purpose because the seeds didn’t have a good germ rate unless they did it. Thoughts?..

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That’s interesting. There are lots of other plant seeds that need to be put in the fridge/freezer for a couple months before germination to simulate winter.

I have a bunch of really old seeds that I’ve had no luck with, maybe I should try this technique.

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I always got those. :sunglasses:

My first thought is that maybe seed germination speed may also vary according to that TianShan/Kush Mtns vs. Ganges Valley climate & behavior divide.

…

& hybridizing over the decades has really confused some polyhybrid plants…

dunno. i’m high.

:evergreen_tree:

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I don’t think stratification is the proper term, i presume you mean scarification.

As for germ test, seeds need time to sit and harden and dry out, and its per course for anyone that fresh seeds a month or so after harvest will typically have lower germ rates on average than ones that have sat for awhile.

The Fresher the seed is the less likely it will germ, but that also doesn’t mean that older seeds are better, its just there is a happy range for them.

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Scarification is a physical marking, scuffing, weakening or wait for it… scarring of the seed coat. If impermeability of the seed coat is the problem, then that would definitely help. Stratification is a process that simulates natural conditions, so a seed will germinate. I presume you didn’t look at the hyperlink in my original post :grin: So we are talking about temperature and moisture conditions in this case. The pre-cracking of the seeds that I believe Dr Greenthumb did would be more of a physical weakening of the seed and a form of scarification I would think.

Interesting to hear that you have found that there is much better germination after a period of time though. I definitely found that a month wasn’t enough in this case. What has been the minimum time that you have found rates to be acceptable? As in 90+%

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Two months minimum , and no didn’t look at the link caught me there, i was thinking stratification in geology terms

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Hey, thanks!

I found some of the seeds that I previously soaked and re-dried, but then did NOT put in the fridge. They are now almost 4 months old, so we’ll see what happens. I will report back, but am willing to bet that they follow what you have said :+1:

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well i just been air drying and then storing just in vials in jar and thrown in to lower drawers of whatever but still being able to germ a good 3-4-5 years later.

Just reading on Stratification in germination terms and for others here’s the link * in a bit more blunt format so people will see it*

But saying that well i have a bunch of seeds i can sacrifice to a test.

Guess the thought is well your kickstarting enzyme production a little or getting it set in place
so then possibly when dried and tried again, they already have a tiny little boost to get going instead of trying to kick that in by itself later on when it may have *changed conditions seed wise.

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That’s way better than what I did.

The seeds you have to test with are really fresh then? I didn’t mean to get someone sacrificing their seeds, but it is kind of interesting. However, if there is no improvement over simply waiting 2 months, then the pre-soak and dry would be an extra step for nothing. All I’ve really figured out so far is that with some cannabis seeds, it doesn’t necessarily ruin them to re-dry them and you may get another shot if your fresh seeds don’t germinate the first time.

@beacher, I’m not hopeful that old seeds would benefit from this, but like I said in the other thread, when it’s getting on and they don’t sprout, I’ve used my teeth to crack the seed and get a few to sprout - last resort. You have to get them aligned so the sides are against your top and bottom teeth. Make sure you’re not hungry when you do it, ha ha…

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Human saliva is the last thing you want on your seeds. We have in mouth an army of bacterias and our saliva is pretty destructive for the vegetal mass (good for us lol). But, and i don’t joke at all, if you gulp it directly with basic meals (not acidic) it become a powerfull germination process when you … sow directly the seeds on the soil with your ass ^^ It was for the fun and gross part. Technically, it’s stratification ^^

When i make seeds i generally take directly the seeds from the flowers and sow them, as brutal than it, and i’ve never experienced a bad germ rate this way. All my worst batchs was created with a bad nutes management during the maturation of seeds in the flowers. You can go wild with virgins, but with mothers that’s another game. Specially if you’re a cal/mag addict.

I generally sow the seeds the morning and get seedlings the night this way … and i strictly love to operate a selection in this specific condition. The segregation on vigor is barely neutralized from individual factors and the plants are generally more solid on long term. It’s also how i lower a “hardcoded” variegations rate mechanically trought a couple of generations. Not magic but great help with Chem’, Blueberry, Trainwreck, G13 based saps and the divas with tendancies to variegate/mutate early. To stabilize a line using variegated specimens is like pissing against the wind ^^

When it’s for storage/distribution, let’s say than “i cure them” gently to “hardened off” the shell (for transport) and to let the shell absorb everything (oil from calyx). My “mark” is pretty simple : i take one seed in the hand, if the patch/pattern of the seeds is removing like a wet wallpaper : not ready, worries to expect. If this “skin” keep its integrity and than i feel a texture under the nail (very gentle scratch, just to feel the texture) with strong oil odor : ready to travel/store. It can take a little week like a big month, depend on strain.

Don’t peel the seeds like a fews seedbank do, it’s maybe a good trick for legal reasons but for that only.

Cheese clothes, 50% RH, light proof, not vented like to dry buds but no stagnant either, stay around the magic 20°c, eventually a treatment for experiments at the same time (chitosan, ethylen gas, gib’…) to don’t waste time in multiple process and to use the residual oil as vector.

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Thanks for such great insight. I will be reading your post a few times over :relaxed:

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Thanks everyone for these interesting infos and point of views, much to learn here in OG …

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That certainly sounds counter-intuitive, almost as if your kilning the seed like they do with barley seed for beer making.
What prompted you to try that?

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I was just thinking that the likelihood that they were no good was so low because of the vigorous parent plants, good conditions during seed development, and the fact that they were so ripe. I thought the only reason they weren’t germinating might be something to do with the fact that the seeds didn’t “think” they should germinate yet. Again, like seeds from wild plants in the fall, for example.

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It’s great seeing folks try stuff like this and it’s a reminder how tough plants have to be in order to survive and flourish in their environment.
I’ve been guilty of using sterilized petri dishes, distilled water and bleach washed seed in some cases where they’d probably sprout if they fell in a crack in the idewalk.

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Under a ~ month old seed may have underdeveloped embryos that need to mature, post harvest. For seed that young its not really a stratification thing. Some wild type seed (at least the feral hemp seed I have seen) seems to have much more tendency for true seed dormancy, which may require stratification to overcome (cold stratification possibly).

Not sure what you mean by precracked or peeled, but plenty of Cannabis varieties make healthy seed where the achene looks slightly open.

Some vegetable seed companies commonly use hot water, bleach, or other wet seed treatments to control seed borne pathogens before packaging seed for sale (usually a few minutes in treatment solution, then redried). Seed treatments reduce germination/shelf life for seed to be stored though.

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I carefully looked the Turkish Delight seeds I have left and none of the others are cracked open. 4/12 were open along the edge of the seed coat (achene as you said). I wouldn’t be the worst thing as far as adaptation goes, to vary the germination speed and likelihood under different conditions. A quick rain shower followed by a week of hot and dry conditions could take out a lot of seedlings if they all sprouted immediately. The cracked ones definitely sprouted quickly - in less than 12 hours. So you’re saying that it is likely a natural thing and that’s great.

Again, I’m sure learning a lot from folks like yourself. Thanks.

Not to stray off topic too much, but the Turkish Delight by Dr Greenthumb has been one of my favourite plants and I never hear anything posted about it anywhere. This topic needs another photo anyway…

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Would you describe the Turkish Delight good for daytime smoking?
Searching for this chilled type of enhancer that you can smoke one , after the other.

Heard this Strain its calming, but in an euphoric way.

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While researching reasons my seeds may not sprout well I found 1 article/paper that mentioned using cycles of drying and moisture to get tuff seeds to crack. I thought I had it bookmarked but I do not. I’ve been looking for it online for half an hour. I think its a lost cause. I wanna say it was from a college, but I’m only 85% sure about that.

So, I’m no help what so ever. lolz

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You know it may be depending on you of course. I would definitely describe it as relaxing and it isn’t a stone to the bone type of high at all. If you’re smoking one after another, I’m not sure what you would think of the flavour, but she is unique.

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