Ummm…i def…wont grow em out…and after I get a reply back from someone who I offered them to…if they don t want em…ill def trade someone…i fully trust who I got them from…there is also a pk of querkle…after reading this I couldn’t care less to grow these…or any of there strains…smh.
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Maybe lambs bread x dread bread?
Wow just had a vision of hair in my food.
Good pipe I just had.
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ok I am a bit confused…long day so here goes…
Subcool and MizJill threw pollen around and made a few strains from the ones they liked and sold the seeds to whoever bought them then they divorce and divided assets…MizJill was awarded some strains - Trainwreck is one of them. Subcool changed the name of his to Qrazytrain then enter in Homegrown Natural Wonders (MizJil?) that crossed the original Trainwreck to several strains and named them after the Dr. Who series on BBC…somewhere in all this a friend of JCF got an F1 pack and did a pollen chuck so he/she would have more to find a personal keeper in the genetics then shared some of the F2 seeds to JCF who wants to do a pollen chuck and distribute the F3’s to the community…as a courtesy, they were both contacted - Subcool says his were lost in a fire…MizJill says no F2’s were ever made and would appreciate not to make F2’s of her genetics as she wants to make money too (who doesn’t?) blaming Subcool for being shady probably thinking he F2’ed the strain (perhaps he did?) and she plans on making more F1’s and working to get rid of the TGA name…
If all that is correct, then we should be good to go on the F3’s…
- TGA is/will be no more
- Others are using the strain to pollen chuck making “new” strains
- F2’s have already been made privately by who knows how many
- Our community is looking at receiving F3’s which are 2 generations away from MizJil’s “select” f1’s
Probably more reasons that’s not coming to mind at the moment or have already been stated…
Who is to stop someone from obtaining Bloodwreck and Apollo13 to recreate their own version or similar Trainwreck ?? No one
Who bred the original strains? TGA did Bloodwreck using Trainwreck and Trinity… nothing like elusiveness.
Apollo13 is all BrothersGrimm - do they get credit and royalties for having a hand? not from what I have seen though I don’t get out in the cannabis community much to really know these things…
F1’s are one thing…least Bodhi gave some direction to work the strain; ~Gu wants people to work his crosses, many are pollen chucking different strains and renaming them to avoid drama like this though we are talking about possible F3’s on “breeders” that split and are dissolving the name…
Where do we draw the line in our preservation efforts?
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drawing the line can be very complicated in this one because if it is already at the f2 and going into the f3 it could be very different from the f1 making the name irrelevant. other then that I think I will stay out of it
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trademark status is possible for names… 
(Gorilla-fucking-Glue)
…at this point considering the drama & the people in question, my 2 cents is OverGrow, make seeds, and come what may, in this specific case, but I defer 100% to the OG community & ultimately our elusive lemonhead. 
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This is where my mind is at though the name is relevant to look at the background…most want this info:
flowering days, squat/bushy or elongated/sparse, good to train or finicky etc
Guidelines so to speak and we select on such…don’t want to put a sativa such as Zamdelica in a microgrow or a indica dominant such as Lucky Charms in a huge cabinet … I love to grow strains that share the same ancestry if I can like the Lucky’s in this thread and see the differences - the Lucky’s are the biggest variation though not much with others like Super Silver Haze and Super Lemon Haze etc
^^This^^
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This is an interesting scenario. I’ve already stated my opinions on permissions and respect but I think we need to think of it in this perspective…
If we as a community are to honor Bodhi’s wishes for these projects as to the rough guidelines he wrote out then does that mean we should give the other breeders the same respect and not Fgen their strains against their wishes or do we respect each individual breeders unique set of wishes? Or do we come up with our own rule set?
I know I haven’t taken part yet but I have given out seeds and I plan to F2 my Dream Beaver pack this winter.
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ya I went a bit over zealous for sure I would also want all that info.
this a good question if you hold your self to a standard with one breeder why not all of the breeders. personality and how a breeder interacts with you might come in to play but then makes you look like you are picking favorites. I will put the whole mzjill and time wreck question in a bit of a different way.
I have Ziploite Oaxacan was looking at doing a reproduction in about 18 months would give the seeds away but about two months ago Bodhi said he might re-release it if it goes well or something to that effect. what would you recommend me doing since the breeder is different?
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Each and every recreation will probably need to be addressed individually. This situation with the Timewreck is a little unique since MzJill has already been fighting against subcool for recognition of her work. If we take her at her word, and I’ve no reason not to, it seems to me she’s legitimately trying to get a foot up.
I voted that genetics are public domain, and I still stand by that statement without prejudice, but this is one time where we should probably refrain for the same reasons we didn’t f2 Baudelaires work. Our actions could be actively antagonistic to her success.
The last thing we want to do is alienate people who’ve already cut their teeth putting in work for the Cannabis community.
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As for the Zipolite Oaxacan; would you be affecting his ability to do business by reproducing them? I highly doubt it. And Bodhi has so many strains under his belt it’s unwise to hold your breath that any specific variety will be back.
In this circumstance, I would say there’s no moral issues with reproducing the Zipolite Oaxacan.
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So I’ll go you one a little better. Suppose the breeder put in the work to make the line IBL. That’s a ton. I could respect that and stay off it. But if it’s not it’s just a pheno hunt and the breeder just chucked pollen. I’d f3 it.
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So I struggle to get my head around all this stuff because I’m from a prohibition country so it’s not legal anyway so we’re not worried about proprietary problems as most people who get seeds here do it by accident, however.
I understand it could “ruin their chances of success” but we aren’t that big of a community and we do not supply every single person in the world with cannabis seeds. Then somebody said about how if they’re F2’s doing a run would make them F3’s so it’d be distant from the original strain anyway so it’s not really their work or her work it’s @Jamescoldflame ‘s.
They’re not getting sold on they’re being shared and the only reason anyone is against sharing is because by giving stuff away for free there’s no need for a currency to be shared so nobody gets rich off the beans. Boo who this MzJill only takes offence by doing a run because she doesn’t get paid for it.
IMHO and like I voted when you buy somebodies work that’s youra if you didn’t want it public then you shouldnt be in the seed business distributing what you want people to not use? You don’t buy a house then go ask permission from the previous owner to put it up on the market do you. And argument thing over Bodhi giving permission first regardless of whether he did or did not shouldn’t of mattered if strains are dead in the water and there’s a way to revive if you truly love that strain that you’ve made bank out of why would you not want other people to continue making a name for you by sharing your diluted strains so surely there would be more attraction to purchase the new strains from her or bodhi for that matter.
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I was excited when i thought I was gonna run timewreck for a seed run…to be honest…even tho sub didn’t get back I was going to do it anyways…but the mzjill , and her "We don t even know if it’s timewreck "…“I don’t want some guy i dont know working my strain”. Clearly I need to stay away from…making f3s is not working them unless I was hunting a pheno to release…as timewreck. Or name switch, sooo if I buy a pk of seeds…grow em, select, breed, …im working the seller strain?, if this is the case 90% of the community has been working other people’s strains…why do we buy regular seeds:thinking:
. And if we breed those regs for generations…its still the sellers gear. I don’t wanna run anyone stuff who thinks in this way…thats just ignorantly thought and said… and just think I was looking at getting some Brian berry from jill…not anymore
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If it were Jillybean or Agent Orange there’d be no question IMO to leave it alone.
Am I wrong in understanding that Timewreck is apparently not a creation of TGA/Sub/Jill-- it contains parents of theirs. Dioxide made it & he left TGA? So then 2 different parties had it as a “F1” and did different things from there on.
TGA has no IBLs afaik.
- It’s time we vote
- We should wait for more input
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I don’t want the community to stop discussing this topic, because it’s important for all of us to figure out a method for this type of thing, even if it’s messy.
However, I would also like to update the situation in regards to the specific seeds in question.
JCF no longer wishes to run any of TGA’s genetics, so I’ve traded him 4 strains for his Timewreck and Querkle seeds. In the future, probably next year, I’ll run both, determine what they actually are and work the lines through a few generations so that they are uniquely stamped with my touch. At that point there is no longer any controversy over whose work is being used. Then, if they’re worthy of being distributed, I’ll do a seed run and offer them for free to OG. By then we’ll know if anyone else, mizjill, is going to release the Timewreck strain herself. I hope this meets with everyone’s approval.
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I’m sorry everyone…but I can’t happily go forward with all that’s going on with these seeds…i was just trying to give back…but grow culture is my personal safe zone…and I put my best effort in what ever part I’m involved in…but after jillz words…i know I won’t wanna give my time towards the genetics…which is a bummer because I picked those gifts from hearing good things about them…oh well thanks Sebring…
if you find a keeper in those sweet strains…save me a clone. Lol
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Add another strain to the preservation wishlist-
Pre-2014 malana village landrace (aka malana cream or malana hashplant)
This line has been contaminated with hybrid genetics at the origin point and is lost in it’s pure form. Unfortunately I wasn’t able to get enough healthy seedlings from my stock to preserve the line for the community. If anyone has malana stock from real seed co or other sources gathered in or prior to 2014, that would be well worth preserving.
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so i have a question now. how do other seed manufacturers deal with things like this? places that make veggies and flowers and such that we buy every year? there can be hundreds of variants on some of these plants. do they patent them for a set amount of time, after which they are free to use by others?
i want to make sure that if i ever start growing on a large scale, maybe make a few of my own strains, that i don’t offend others by my choices now. i am accumulating some different hybrids and would like to use them to create something in the future. i would like to spend the time and effort to make it a stable IBL before marketing it and selling it. i would like to make money doing this. and i don’t want to step on any toes.
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Discontinued and rare strains are a great way to start. (Hint, hint )
They provide a popular, well tested, non controversial, set of genetics with known characteristics, from which to start.
We had exactly you in mind when we crafted this preservation project!
Our strategy for preserving strains required that:
they be in demand;
more or less in the “public domain”;
that they be available to ALL at no cost (full inclusion regardless of the perceived communal worth of the recipients);
and that they be would be preserved by a community of dedicated knowledgeable committed growers.
I think we’re smashing it out of the park!?!?
This strategy would assure the maximum distribution and preservation of these genetics.
It would require us to work as a community towards a goal greater than ourselves. Also, we’d need to teach those less experienced and to rely on inspiring volunteers to make it all work. Where is it easier to accomplish that than here?
(Now you’re privy to what me and @Hoodini spent hours discussing!) 
This project was started because we saw the talent, passion and commitment of the OG community! We believed in YOU! 
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