well, it could be that the height of greek strains are just greek ? (i never heard they are that big, but ill continue) .
There is a italian Strain called carmagnola that is also very big, and it didnt group much with other strains in genetic analysis.
so: why cant an expression, a strain as we know it, just be mainly made in the country itselve … ?
For me i know the greek theories of origin well, and i can tell you they are very many theories, columbian, thai, african, afghain, ethiopian, hemp from the north origins are suspected,hahah…
very few sounded like very strong evidence is there for any theorie…
what i can tell, lebanese is often very hempy… turkish and greek are a bit easyer to find non-hempy lines, alltho im not saying they are unhempy… Hemp “usage” merged quiet often with recreational usage… For me thaaats a much more important distinction to make than theorizing about origin… many hemp in lebanon, greece, and turkey…
the afghani inclusions in this region might be plausible, alltho i have no concreete points to think that, but have a turkish that feels mostly landracy, but has a touch of this hybrid brainfu_k quality . Its also very sedating…
Im NOT saying it IS crossed with afghani… I never claim things that i have no proove, nor do i especially suspect thats the case, but it certaingly would match with the effect my Turkish line gives…
It can of course, but everywhere we know tall landrace plants exist, has heavy rainfall or irrigation along river bottoms. Tall plants need lots of water.
Dry area plants are always short in stature, unless irrigated as in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Other tall plants come from the wet tropics/ Himalayas.
I can’t think of a single tall landrace from a dry region, kalamata excepted. That tells me that it’s genetic code was most likely developed elsewhere.
Loong ago i had a unknown line (evtl turkish) without this heavyness, but very similar effect. veery simila… funny in that one i also felt a bit this hybridness, but it was not heavy , it was just about in the middle of effects… so… whatever happend in this region, i can imagine greatness was found, as this old line long ago was very very very very good , and it brought me to this mediterran place / far east Place in mind .
Thaats why im not a fan of people speaking of outcross here outcross there, because what if there was outcrossing happening, but besides it was an indigene line, that was just better, and perfect on its own… Never to be touched by anything else… And the seeds still alive, and it even was broadleave, and then someone just comes and says: broadleave !! outcrossed! haha
Kalamat is middledry. in summer its pretty dry, but thowards autum the rainfall is pretty propper.
another factor might be how long does the ground save water.
Well, i can just imply it came from a wetter region than Kalamata, per example the mountains… where even better weed might have came from
Who say that Kalamata was the best? im not so knoledgable to rule out such a scenario…
Overall, southEurope has wuiet a Hemp tradion going… Turkey, Greece, the balkan Countries further up, Slovakia, hungary… much weed there loong ago… so it might have anchestry from there if it grows that high, wouldnt be a big surprise… and those countrise have normal amout rainfall… there are even very shortflowering tendencies found in another old turkish line fro the 70s that i know of…
Since the weed there is very hempy… this explonation, together with the not as dry climate as you suggest, but a relatively dry climate , i dont see a clear proove in what you say…
Very short structure you find in the places where EXTREEMES are… Short structure is rather a result of extreemes, not just a funny choice, its the last possibility to survive…
Is kalamta to dry? I cant say definityl, i wont repeat why…
i give you a half point for a half good argument… but not more. haha
last time i checked when you told the guiness winner plant wich was 30 feet was italian genetic.
imho you mixed some infos up. The Guiness winner Plant was Chinese genetic. They even sell/sold the seeds of it by the way.
(the blue line is the amount of Raindays per month) Kalamata:
Morroco:
Lebanon:
so, you see, in morocco, and lebanon, we have two three months in summer without a drop of Rain…
In greece, while its not much, i was again right with my speculative critique to assume greece kalamata is wetter then the other two places with its short Landraces…
And i might be right that its the absolute extreemes that cause plants to become short (they dont only become short but grow bigger rootsystems in comparison to its size, and store energy longer in roots, im told).
Could be hemp.ancestry for sure. Definitely possible. Hemp gets tall even in drier areas, but however there is limited foliage to support, and the ground is shaded by other plants. This makes a difference. Kalamata is big and branchy with many leaves. 30 inches or more of rain a year makes for potentially large biomass of vegetation if the rain is sufficient during summer.
There is some extra rain in October ( 2 inches)in Peloponesia, but during the growing months, ( June July august) it is less than an inch per month, with yearly totals of around 25 inches. Imo Kalamata likely wouldn’t have developed as a large statured plant in Greece. It most likely was a large landrace, or more than one, from a wetter or irrigated region, combined with the drought tolerance of Middle Eastern Hashplants.
In morocco the growing( veg) months are wetter from snowmelt and due to this they plant in February. Plants are short too. 5 feet or 6 feet max.
Losses are to be expected in NY outdoors.l, unfortunately. Typically I plant 3 to harvest 1. 1 for mother nature, 1 for thieves and 1 for me. Hopefully the two recover and there are no further losses.
i have no clima charts from the mountains, so i can only specualte if its wetter, but i find this summerv shortage of rain is consistent at two places.
also, i heard about morrocans having to irrigate their hybrid-strains and no way around it… I never heard a greek guy telling me that from greece (alltho in grece they dont grow large fields and irrigation with a garden hose is easily going unmentioned… On the other hand i still thin @deliciorganic who hunted Greek landraces would mentioned it, if its thaat dry.
I think greece is wetter. its also one of THE MOST biodiverse places on earth… how come if its a desert in summer…
now load the greek / morrocan kif measuremnt too, because each type of analysis differs slightly. so you always need to compare the same mesurement to the same measurement…
yes, they have to irrigate hybrids, and i never heard the greek guy @deliciorganic or another greek guy mention that THEY aswell need to irrigate their hybrids…
yes, if you dont consider the ABSOLUTE ABSENSE of water as a potentially much different scenario…
So, IF you DO consider the absolute absence as a total differnt cscenario, then you have listened sucessfully.
Namely you listened that THE ABSOLUTE EXTREEMES are in lebanon, and morocco.
Thats the critical step that only a special evolved Rootsystem will survive… when there is nothing. no rain, zero.
Ateast thats my theory, i wrote and even predicted it in my first post all in one, i knew there was more rain in greece.
We are talking about a theory that kalamata descends from lebanon…where there are only short plants.
See if you can find a tall landrace( it’s not proven kalamata is a landrace yet) from any other dry region and report back to me. Good luck. I can’t find any, unless they are irrigated, cultivated fields or plots. If you look at any dry region on earth and look at the landrace cannabis plants that grow there, they are consistently short.
Kalamata doesn’t belong in Greece as a landrace imo. It’s height was inherited from a different region on earth is what i’m saying.
The known middle eastern landraces are Sudan, Sinai, Moroccan and Lebanese/ Syrian. All short. 6 feet or less.
Turkey has adequate rainfall in the East to produce tall landraces, though I haven’t seen them. I’ve been told of 8-10 footers in small Guerrilla patches… Could be in part Turkish…
Could be descended from Greece’s cannabis breeding program that occurred before the 30’s. I can’t find pictures or much info on whether tall plants existed then or not. Greece was hybridizing various landraces back then. I think its most likely kalamata was made then, or earlier from imported genes.
