and that is the thing if your soil/soil-less is wet it gets cold and holds the cold
so if the are sitting on the floor they will take longer to warm up as heat raises
and in a sealed room/tent we tend to exhaust the hot air so it will take longer
for your media to warm up and dry out
put your finger in there feel it if it is cold to you it way cold for your plants
to be sitting around
just my two cents all the best in your grows and be safe
Dequilo
So a couple things. Temps are critical, but 60F at night ain’t gonna kill them. My garden hits 59 or 60F every night and has since it got below that outside, literally nothing I can do because I have the heat turned down to 60F every night between 7pm and 7am. So I don’t know that that’s it. Just get them off the cold basement floor because that’s probably colder.
Also, I don’t see a fan in the tent but you need constant air movement hitting the leaves. An oscillating fan in a corner on low, blowing back and forth across the whole tent and your plants, will do the trick. That’ll help dry out the rootzone. That, in addition to the fresh air exchange of whatever exhaust fan you have in the tent, will work wonders to get the environment good. And both are a requirement to prevent PM.
As for the soil and amendments and stuff, I would recommend checking here before doing anything whackadoodle. Lots of people are really friendly and knowledgable about how to create and maintain water-only organic dirt recipes. I’ll help when I can, but I’m a nube about almost everything. I just parrot what I’ve read or been told and it seems to work OK? So far, but the next big fuckup is always lurking around the corner…
@nube “Temps are critical, but 60F at night ain’t gonna kill them”
and a fan
I agree:) and have the same problem being in the northeast the
high today is 30 F
but I keep the pots 18 to 24 inches off the floor on table if I can
small electric heater and keep them at 62 or so at the soil-less
mine do cool down slow and warm up fast with 2100 watts of
HID in a 12 foot by 8 foot space
but as 60 F will not kill em it will slow them down somewhat
all the best and be safe
Dequilo
Lol, yeah I can relate there. I felt a little cocky yesterday, lol, not today.
Should note, and I need to figure a way to label my pictures better, this topic is a mess, but I have the two groups of four plants. The first group is in a tent and well regulated, and shortly lifted off the ground… the drooping ones are group two. My overflow if you will; I never expect 100% germination. These sit out exposed to the basement until I can scrape the cash. Those are the ones with water problems. The first group has all the HPS photos and leaf discoloring… these are my first and foremost. So if they die I’m fucked; if the others die I’m just really sad.
Anyone have recommendations on HPS photography? I’ve played with using the flash, meh. Any light I use is washed out. I plan in the short future, this next year sometime, to switch to MH for veg and LEDs for flower; so it’ll go away eventually.
I mean, the banana peels made total sense. I found lots of articles using them, none that I would put any real trust in. No evidence for me to believe them; OG is about the only place I will trust blindly, and only when several people are agreeing. But it all seemed legit, I was transplanting anyways… I still have a notion it’s legit, but admittedly it’s alarmingly unfounded. On me for not finishing my research, I guess.
I’ll have to wait, in case I misinterpreted advice between the two groups; but I’m unsure what to do with my little guys, and I think they’re near death. Really tempted to pop them back in the tent where I can protect them better. The basement is on the central HVAC but as someone who slept down there before, it’s closer to 65 than the thermostat‘s 68.
And society is built of shared information; we know first hand very little compared to what we parrot. I myself have only a faint idea of what I’m doing, so I do pretty much whatever is suggested, but usually only here. I have had fun building the ventilation in my head ever since I realized 100% need intake and exhaust filters though… too bad it‘d cost like $150.
But I ramble on a bit… Environmental controls are on my mind. Those LEDs are second on the list, then a second tent. Wish I could get that $2200 stimulus check, lol. Would clear that all up. Short of that, it’s fairly mild environment routinely 65 and just a bit dry. I diverted attention away from my build since I have done (almost) all I can, so I bit myself there by not finishing either.
Finish your stuff guys, don’t be like me!
I don’t think they’re near death. They don’t look it to me. Relax, breathe, and don’t worry too much.
Maybe you’ve addressed this before, but why haven’t you kept them all in the same tent? I don’t get having some outside the tent when there’s ample space inside it? They’re all in veg, right? Put them all in the same space and treat them all the same! 
As for pics, it depends on what you’re using to take them. Most phone apps have a white balance option that allows you to tell it to auto white balance or set to specific color temps. If you have the latter, choose 2700k or 3000k or whatever’s closest to it. For some reason, I think the base iPhone camera app lacks this. I don’t live in the Apple universe, but I’ve had friends tell me this, so if you’re using that device, good fucking luck. lol
Digital cameras have the ability to set white balance as well, usually only on “manual” settings or something like it, and it’s often either auto or set like it is in phone apps. All of that will help, but so will having white LEDs. 
About the banana peels in the dirt, to my tiny brain it doesn’t make sense without composting them or putting them through a worm bin before introducing them to indoor potting soil. Also, they spray so much bullshit on banana peels, and they come with so many bugs from the store, that you may have introduced a pathogen. I wouldn’t worry about it that, though, in case you’re spiraling downward on the possibilities. 
In my limited experience with organic growing over the last few years, I’ve found that you cannot reverse deficiencies with organics in almost any cases - damage leaves remain damaged no matter what you do. All I’ve been able to accomplish is fixing the root cause for new growth, and typically only through transplants.
Teas, topdressing, foliar sprays, applications of expensive microbes - none of that has ever fixed an issue I’ve had, though they’re all strongly recommended by the most vocal assholes on every forum, which is why I no longer do any of it. At most I’ll add more amended soil to a pot to top it up. Also, almost all of the KNF weed grows I’ve seen always look either burnt or deficient or (confoundingly) both, so I’m loathe to trust any of their advice. I’m sure KNF works great for long-time practitioners of it, but the few people I know who employ it don’t get phat or photogenic results and their plants never look very healthy, yet they keep swearing by it.
This is why I went to a single water-only soil mix and stuck with it. I address the issues before they arise - transplant before the plants appear rootbound, improve the soil mix, get higher quality amendments, etc. Notill seems to work great for people who research it a lot and plan extensively before jumping in the deep end, but it’s not an option for me in a rental.
I guess my best advice, and take this with a grain of salt because I’m a total nube who usually leads people astray as you’ve probably seen countless times in your short history here, is ask many people you trust before jumping into a solution to a problem you haven’t necessarily ID’d. When I’ve given peoplensoil mix or IPM recipe advice, their downfall is almost always not following it to the letter or reading the instructions and, instead, trying to wing it with substitutions and bad measurements. Such is life.
I could say the same thing for DWC. 
I like using my KNF supplements as just that, supplements. One problem is people think, this is organic, no need to adjust pH. But the majority of the KNF inputs I’ve made aren’t even done until the pH drops below 4.0. Probably explains the “both” aspect you are seeing.
These are the same people with failed KNF grows.
That’s my primary concern! I say it this morning and all the leaves are point to the floor, did not look good. If they for sure will survive looking like that I can live with that… eventually. But as always when in panic about the plants, just check with OG. If no one says “Oh dear God stop” it’s usually ok.
This is good to learn, I know this from my plants already. They lost a few bottom leaves; I don’t expect them to come back, just hope to amend the issue for the rest of the cycle… Take this with less than a grain of salt, I read somewhere banana peals were compostable fast enough in soil it wasn’t an issue. I’m definitely going fishing for banana peels when I harvest to see how much is left.
Two areas are to keep some in veg, I can’t flip to flower as I have one timer atm… really only $10 I should probably buy one. I’ve got plans for some home automation shit for the grow that I’m not close to affording right now, so probably just have to accept either one grow area or coughing up $10 plus an extension chord. It’s weird yeah, lol, because I’m just trying to adapt it to my needs still. Of course starting the year I’m unemployed the entire year didn’t help, and damn back then I thought this would all be over. Now I’m not sure when my industry will recover.
Ugh, yeah, I didn’t mention we needed ORGANIC bananas. Hoping that doesn’t come back to bite me as well.
I would’ve done that hands down. I don’t worry one damn bit about my ph… not that I’m thinking I shouldn’t; I just don’t at this point. I’ve got enough worries.
I picked my potting mix largely because ReikoX recommend a recipe for water only, and a whole lot of people on OG and my own research confirmed it. Funny enough, it’s good soil.
But winging it… well shit. Thats how I live- I always adapt recipes and schematics. What I could change is knowing when I don’t know enough to make that call, lol. This is partly why I chose organics to start. Set it and forget it. I’m determined to get a worm bin going here, so I think I will be sticking with the EWC recipe I’ve been recommended for most of my growing. Living soil is the ideal but I have a lot to learn, I failed making compost tea. Didn’t aerate properly since it didn’t click in my head why.
It’s a long and hard journey, hoping with OG to reference it won’t be painful.
Also: short term; I have cardboard boxes. Shit loads. How thick of a layer do you suppose one would need for insulating the floor? I couldn’t care less if they get wet or muddy. I’ve been saving them for worms (Amazon boxes are said to be safe if I read right).
I’ve got much respect for your work but I don’t think bashing people just wanting to help is a good approach. You might say “That doesn’t work” but calling names is never a good way to contribute …
Nobody’s calling anybody names. I just use that asshole term as a reference, not as a categorization of anyone. Just as if I was saying “every Tom, Dick and Harry.”
Was there a particular reason you felt accused? No harm, no foul good sir. 
I get you, I saw that first too. I took it more to heart though and what I took away from it is more trust your sources carefully. Some are not interested in making sure you understand.
Your recommendation was spot on, probably should’ve done that instead. I would’ve seen results faster at least.
You asked for the origin of the banana recommendation, as I saw this:
thought it could be a Potassium deficiency, boiling the banana peals avoid pathogens and is a good way to solve that deficiency in an organic way. I don’t care if it is a general reference, if you feel there’s something wrong in a recommendation you can point it out without qualifying in any sort people who made them, it’s not the first time I see it in this forum and it is discouraging. You are enough intelligent to understand what I mean, sir …
Touching on a few things lost in the fray…
I do have a circulating fan, it’s just barely out of frame.
I will over the next few days be adjusting some things around the grow area, maybe move the four back into the tent? I can’t imagine there being room.
I may be able to tarp off something, tarp being likely moving blankets until I can get some Panda film; is that worthwhile or should I focus on a second tent? I heard some word of a bit of work so $50-$100 of panda is a possibility while a tent and fan… wait a minute. @zavorotnuck Where you talking connecting the second tent/area inline with the other? That could pretty well work I think. That was my plan for the intakes already.
Damn… I don’t know if it’s just that time of day (post 4:20) or if this is a great idea.
ahah It’s difficult to understand you too freand.
I thought you were grow in your basement from start to finish. It incorrect? I’ve thought a lot about this kind of system lol:
you grow underground or what?
i meant it
Yes, I tend to use extra words to try and make myself think better, and it comes out in text badly. I will try to keep it to the point for you.
I see exactly what you mean! I wish I could draw my thoughts that well. That is interesting, but I’d be concerned you wouldn’t get even air paths, you know? Air will travel through the least resistance, in other words it will pull through the holes closet to the fan more than those farther away. Fancy math could maybe tell you some numbers about how much this difference would be.
I happen to have a small grow and good air circulation through the whole house, I essentially use the house as a lung room. Right now anyways… I need to seal that shit up and filter it.
Good news; things are drying out. The plants look like boiled spinach hanging of garden hose, but the soil is notably dry, only felt it when I really got my finger in there. I assume once they dry out themselves it’ll recover? In other words, don’t water them when I normally would? I seem to have a very loose grasp on when to water, leaning on the heavier side. I should weight them vs my empty pot so I have a solid reference number rather than my picking them up and guessing. But I can’t get the plants out of the tent readily, so don’t mind the permanent feature.
I gave in and watered this morning, the soil was dry, the plants hadn’t recovered at this point. So I gave them a bit of water, maybe 1/3-1/2 the amount I normally give. One has already perked up- its leaves are less boiled looking and fanning out. The one that never seemed to get bothered is still doing well. Just waiting on the other two to perk up.
In the tent, we’ll be filliping to flower tonight (tomorrow?)! No filter. How bad is this going to be? Stinking up the basement is fine… Leaking outside so the neighbors smell is less ideal. Even if the last couple weeks the house starts to smell, that’s alright, but it has to stay here. By the time I can buy a filter these will be harvested, I’m guessing.
I’ve had plants that don’t stink at all.
I’ve had plants that stink all day.
I’ve had plants that overwhelm carbon filters.
In general I find that the smell mostly stays in the room when the doors are closed.
I dry in a sealed bathroom and if you go smell the door you can smell it but it doesn’t smell outside the bathroom.
This is not a hard rule. I only grow a few plants at a time.
All the best
That’s kinda what I was thinking. I have just the four in 3 gal pots. To get outside it would have to either go out the furnace exhaust or go upstairs, so I’ll get a warning before it’s too bad. Just hoping I haven’t gone smell blind to it, they didn’t smell at all for a while, they have permeated the basement with a faint smell now, but it’s smells of pepper and… I don’t know quite, not strong enough. Grass? So a fairly innocuous smell so far.
Worked a while in the tent, first and foremost getting it up off the ground. The result was two 2’x4’x3/4” OSB tops with nom.(2”x6”)x12” legs at each corner, the center, and between each corner along the perimeter. I did it this way because A) Who the hell wants to carry a 4’x4’ panel down a narrow stairwell and B) I can use them together or add two legs to make two 2’x4’ tables.
Something I learned today, don’t forget to include your ductwork (I was using semi-rigid, and its less forgiving) in ceiling height calculations… I measured three times, even accounting for 8” extra for the duct… but see the thing is, when it goes 90* down, you need to add an additional diameter of the duct. So I ended up 4-6” short. I did get around this with an elbow fitting.
Today’s question is more theoretical, I suppose. I’m increasingly concerned about PM as to me it seems I have high potential for it.
My lights on temps range from 65-70, averaging 68*, with humidity around 40-45%. This is on par with our whole house, and fairly stable. Lights off is where I get concerned… temps drop to 60-63* averaging 61* routinely, but it depends how dry the pots are that day. Humidity rises without the heat from the light, and raises to 50-60% causing the temp drop.
Is this difference in temp/rh enough to be concerned about? I don’t have a problem with PM that I’ve noticed, but I’m only 2 months into my first grow. (Some updates on the plants to come once lights come on.)