Triacontanol experiment

Hello everyone,
A little while back I set up a small tent for the purposes of doing some experimentation with some the various plant hormones. Specifically I wanted to do some experiments around using Indole Acetic Acid and Naphthalene Acetic Acid for the early promotion of a good fibrous root structure, Cytokines for the promotion of thick vegetative growth, Triacontanol for the promotion of shorter, more branched plants and Methly Jasmonate for the triggering of a stress defence reaction to boost the plants natural defences, i.e THC.
I have set this tent up as a RDWC, simply because it’s fast and I get full access to the roots and I also have a control of sorts in another tent with a similar setup. I am vegging these under 150W of 3500K Samsung strips.

For my nutrient schedule I am using

Veg

Half strength for the first week

1.94g per litre of Maxi bloom with an additional 0.8 grams per litre of Calcium Nitrate in Veg and 0.5 g/litre of soluble kelp, stepping up to 1g in the last week of veg.

Flower

1.94g per litre of Maxi bloom
1g per litre of soluble kelp ( I have only used Sargassum and Laminaria sp. kelp while omitting Ascophyllum nodosum, as I didn’t want to pollute the experiment with the large amount of Cytokines Ascophyllum nodosum kelp contains)
4ml per litre of 8%f Fulvic Acid
8ml per litre of 12.6% potassium humate.

PH 5.6 - 6

Apart from leaving out the one type of kelp, this is my normal schedule, depending on the plant I might up the Maxi bloom a little latter in flower.

All of the hormones mentioned above fit into the category of PGR’s, however all of the ones above are naturally derived rather than synthetic and have been extracted from various organic sources.
The two plant strains I have chosen to test this on are a Pyramid Seeds Tutankhamen, and a Cindy 99 that was originally from Brothers Grim but has long since been inbred, back crossed, femanized and generally messed around with. That said it reliably has that rotting sweet pineapple fruit smell and it’s a cracker.

The first experiment I have conducted was for Triacontanol. This was administered to the plants as a root drench when they were 10 days old. They received 0.25 mg per litre of root solution, dissolved in Polysorbate 20 and left for 30 mins before flushing. I learned that Polysorbate 20 is an awesome foaming agent. Make sure you turn off your air pump or you end up with foaming tubs and foam everywhere.

Here are some images of the result at 4 weeks. The dosage I feel has obviously been too high, with the Cindy being particularly effected. They are not at ALL like I would expect at this stage in a DWC setup so there has been some stunting of growth both above and bellow. Normally I would expect nearly double this growth in 4 weeks.

I did stuff their roots around at the start so I probably lost a good week of growth. However what is VERY apparent is that for predominately sativa strains these are both incredibly bushy and well branched. Far more that they normally would be at this age and size.

This is a Cindy, It has been tipped once at the sixth node. In this pic there is some evidence of some slight sulphur deficiency wich has now been corrected. If you know this strain you will know it doesn’t normally look like this at 4 weeks.

This is the Tutankhamen. It is a much more vigorous plant, but this one is much more bushy than normal. It’s still been slowed down some, but not as much as the Cindy.

This again has only been tipped once at the sixth node so secondary branching appears to be significantly higher with the triacontinol treatment than it normally would be.

I should add too that I have defoliated both of these reasonably aggressively to expose the increased branch tips to more light, this likely will have slowed some growth as well but it’s difficult to say exactly how much. This is a reasonably normal practice for me to compensate for less canopy penetration by the strip lighting I use so there is nothing new here. i.e. this is not the cause of the growth type that is visible.

Anyway… I will keep posting updates on progress. I will most probably give these another 2 weeks of veg before I flip, any comments, feedback, tips or pointers are welcome.

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Do you think that by plant weight there would be as much growth as if without triacontanol? Just more branching instead of longer internodes?

I will be watching this experiment as I have been wanting to try the same but waiting on my polysorbate 20.

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That is a good question, I think maybe but then think the dosage is the issue here. They have only had the one treatment so it’s effect is obviously reasonably large. I know from studies I have read that dry weight can be significantly increased with triacontinol but it appears very dosage dependent i.e too much and you get stunting. There is very little in the way or anything reliable on dosage I have been able to find for cannabis so the aim is to fill this gap. Normally both these plants would have stretched out significantly more by now, but they would also have significantly less branching. I suspect I will get reduced yeilds for the Cindy at this rate, while the Tutenkhamon is looking like it may be a monster. I will have to give them at least 2 weeks more veg than normal though.
Next time I will half the dosage to see if I can stimulate the dense branching without stunting root and main-stem growth.

You will find the triacontinol does not dissolve quite as easily in the p20 as you might expect. Two things you can do to assist, one is to add a small amount of ethanol to the polysorbate and the other is to warm it slightly in the microwave. Also as I said it’s a phenomenal foaming agent/detergent/sufurcant so you will find that if you do use it as a root drench in DWC like I have that you may need to flush out your tub a couple of times. I didn’t realise this and after about 10 mins was greeted at my tent door with an enormous wall of foam that had almost completely filled my entire tent! Not what I expected and a real freaking pain in the ass to deal with! :joy: Leaf application is the other approach but getting a consistent dose is even more difficult that way.

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Cool. Neat experiment. Very interested in seeing your observations and results.

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Very interesting.

Thanks for doing the work.

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As it turns out my p20 arrived this arvy. I will use 0.1mg/litre on 2 of my new seedlings at 10 days old and see what happens in comparison with 2 that will not receive the dose.

Edit; I hope you don’t mind me doing an experiment along side yours. Mine are in soil.

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Mind? No dude I think that is perfect! And a different environment as well.

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I am just working out how to dilute to .1mg per litre.
Would adding .1 gram to 100ml for a base then add 1ml of that to a litre work or is it .1 gram to a litre for the base?

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This was my approach but keep in mind it was for a 10 min drench so your results may vary.
No it’s .0001 grams per litre! So strong stuff! That 50 grams or so you probably have will last you 5 life times!

Get a 100 ml of distilled water and put it aside. Then get maybe 3-5ml of PS20, and warm it slightly, add your 100mg and stir till it’s clear in the light. When dissolved add this to the 100 ml slowly while stirring so it doesn’t foam up. It can precipitate out of solution if you just dump it all in at once. This will give you a concentrate you can further dilute. If you add 100 points of this to a litre of water it will give you your 0.1 mg per litre. If you add 10 mg back at the start instead of 100 mg you can make it a more manageable 1 ml of concentrate per litre,but then you need scales accurate enough to measure such a small amount that with at least semi precision. Now dude, I have to say I am pretty baked right now,so just double check my basic math here as I may be out by an order of magnitude but I think that’s the right ratio.

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Very interesting. Thanks for doing this experiment!

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I just mixed up the stock solution so I can water the subjects tomorrow on the tenth day of growth, I will be flowering straight up from here so the experiment will be slightly varied from yours but the outcome will still be measurable.

To be confident in my dilution I used an online calculator at Dilution Calculator - Mass per Volume - PhysiologyWeb

I have decided to use 6 plants instead of 2 for both control plants and subject plants.

Happy days.

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I’ll be really interested to see what the result is with this approach. In the various studies tri is applied right up and during both flower and fruiting so I can’t see it causing problems so long as the dosage is within the sane range.

There is a good paper on the response of various crops and plants to both root application and foliage application, you can find it here:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17429145.2011.619281#

The issue you will see is that even within this paper there is variations on the rate of applications ranging from 0.01–100.0 µg L to 1.5 mg L! In a laboratory setting that a is massive dosing range, especially when they also say tricontinol becomes active in doses as low as 10 µg L !!! Which is just an insanely micro amount.

Sometimes in various studies the benefits of tri are also potentiated with Gibberellic Acid at up 75 mg L. Am going to keep mine simple so I can hopefully establish a baseline dose.

Am going to post some more update pics of mine later on today when I get a few minutes.

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Just some update shots of how the Triconitnol treated plants have progressed in the last 12 days.
All the conditions are the same as previously, except I upped the Calcium Nitrate to 1.4 g per litre to try and encourage some vertical growth. Depending on the plant, this is something I will do frequently as it is possible to partly manage height this way.
The Tutankhamen went ballistic as soon as I did this, and the Cindy also has started to get a little height also. I have no idea how the Cindy is going to look in flower, like a hedge of trichomes I suspect. This pheno is so dank you can see trichomes on the leaves even during veg through a magnifying glass! Anyway…

This is a shot of them side by side. I have tied a few of the branches down to try and get some light into the hedges these things have become :joy: For scale the tubs are 30 litre, so about a foot high.

This is a closeup of the tutenkahmen. So many branches in there, it’s completely off it’s head. No shortage of clones to take anyway, but I think I am going to have to do some pruning.

Another close up

This is the Cindy, some vertical height growth since last time is evident, but it’s very slow going and just seems to want to bush out more. I have pushed nitrate levels to close to toxic levels to try and push it up a bit, it’s starting to work but it’s possible the tutenkhamen will swallow it during flower. I am about ready to write it off as anything that will yield much. Again so many branches in there it’s mental.

Keep in mind that these are both mostly sativa, and this kind of bushy growth is NOT normal.

And another

So I was hoping the Cindy would get it’s game on, because I really need to think about flipping otherwise the Tutankhamen is not going to fit in the tent. It’s already covered in pre-flowers so is itching to be flipped. I am going to give them till the end of the week and then flip regardless.

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11 days after watering with the tria im not sure that i see a difference.
Tria watered plants are the 6 at the front.

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Interesting. I wonder what that’s about? Might be worth foliar application on a couple as a subset to see if you get a marked difference maybe?

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There might be a difference, once i remove males I will also do a defoliation so we can see underneath.

I will do a separate test for foliar application later on down the track.

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Hi everyone, apols for the slow updates. Other things seem to need doing too dammit. :joy:
So I flipped on the May 2 and have cobbled together a flowering light from bits and pieces I had lying around.
It is currently running under 500w of LEDs. A mix of 50w strips in 3500K and 2 Cree COBS running 75w at 3000K.
Incidentally the entire light is being powered by a converted DELL server powers supply feeding into a bus bar with the LED’s having a number of CC step up converters supplying the final current. Given this is an experimental set up anyway I thought I would go all out and see if both the PSU and Buck converters were up to it. Typically such devices if they are going to fail, will fail within the ‘burn in period’ So far no failures. If anyone is interested in how to convert one of these high output, high quality PSU’s for their lights, I am happy to post a how to. There are a few things that need to be done to get them to fire up, I also locate a fan above them to prevent overheating and shut down but as they output 12V this is a trivial task. This is especially important if you get hold of the DELL fanless PSU modular units.

I am running the following nutrient schedule

Flower

1.94g per litre of Maxi bloom
1g per litre of soluble kelp
4ml per litre of 8%f Fulvic Acid
8ml per litre of 12.6% potassium humate.

PH 5.6 - 6

This is a view of both the Tutankhamen and the Cindy together, The tut is going to be a quite a big plant IMHO, and the Cindy, although much smaller has finally produced at least SOME vertical growth. I think I went overboard with the nitrogen to try and get a bit of height and ended up elongating some branches more than I would have liked but hey you live and learn.

This is the Tutankhamen, I have pruned some of the excessive branches as it was getting no light beneath the canopy, I also have defoliated a bit. It’s become a branchy stocky plant that should yield well if it keeps this up.

This is the Cindy, as can be seen it is still significantly smaller, but it may end up producing a medium ‘ish’ amount of dank, although more would obviously be better. That said all is not lost when 2 weeks ago I had all but written the Cindy off.

This is another shot of both from above…

Here is a shot of the light rig powering this thing…

As an aside here are also a couple of monster shade leaves from my brothers current run… Only DWC seems to get this happening.

So this is the small one :joy:

This is a blackberry kush leaf sitting on a beer longneck… so a quart bottle.

Next update we should hopefully be looking at some full blown flowering plants! Any questions/comments. fire away!

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Thats a really cool looking light rig. Most important question is what kind of beer is that? VB? :koala:

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Coopers Pale Ale tallie is my guess.

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Maybe its Fosters?

Kidding…

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