Zephyr grows and creates

[zephyr]

aphids are so evil. I haven’t had this happen since my first ever grow.
I brought a stunted outdoor plant indoors to flower in my seedling cabinet. actually a very similar situation to this propagation tent fiasco with aphids introduced from my outdoor harvest.

trying to decide what my next step should be. what can I spray in the grow room that won’t harm my beneficial insects? If I spray essential oils and neem, will that be safe for my spiders and beneficials as long as they are not sprayed directly?

Am I remembering correctly that ladybugs are the right beneficial predator to use on aphids specifically?

I have so many beneficials in my grow tents, I’m really hesitant to spray and disrupt this ecosystem, because it has been doing a great job protecting my plants.

I have a thriving spider population in all my grow tents which I have been working pretty hard to encourage. every time the tents get cleaned, we lovingly collect all the spiders in a plastic yogurt container and release them back into the tents afterwards. hahaha

The spiders keep the fungus gnats in check completely, and I haven’t had any other pest problems since they showed up.

I figure if I introduce a beneficial predator that specifically goes after aphids, I can manage that risk and my spiders can feast on the ladybugs afterwards.

[shade]

The portable air purifiers work great in a pinch, they cost less than a filter and fan combo but more than a DIY probably. We have them for when the wildfire smoke rolls in but the rest of the year i repurpose them. Run it in the room on blast when I sweep the floors etc. Works alright for trimming (small quantities of course).

The way things are now with clones i just think of doing a seed run with them in quarantine instead of bringing them into the flower tent. I wonder if you pick up the mt hood clone again if that would at least alleviate some anxiety and risk and provide something cool and new as well.

[potpotpot]

Idk, ladybugs are pretty badass, have to be a decent size spider to knock that down.

I also encourage my spider IPM team, and unfortunately they seem really sensitive to any pesticide I use. Feels bad too, they almost become like free range pets haha.

My experience is that pesticides are not as targeted as they claim to be, and knockdown things way outside their labeled coverage. Sometimes they seems to do a better job at things not on the label, maybe because they are less frequently used to control them? Idk, this last bit is just conjecture and bullshit btw, if that wasn’t obvious haha

[zephyr]

This was a different cut, I know this one was perfectly clean when it entered my garden the aphids were definitely my mistake.

@shade

I wonder if you pick up the mt hood clone again

But I will definitely try again with that mt hood magic cut from sensible if they have it in stock next spring for the outdoor season.

@shade

We have them for when the wildfire smoke rolls in

yeah those air filters really are life savers during wildfire season. I have one running in my grow room, but it just couldn’t keep up with the dankness.

[zephyr]

@potpotpot

I also encourage my spider IPM team, and unfortunately they seem really sensitive to any pesticide I use. Feels bad too, they almost become like free range pets haha.

I feel exactly the same haha. I have some macro photography videos of funny spider behavior, I should post them sometime.

My tent spiders mainly hang out in the gaps between the tent floor liner tarp and the tent walls, and the sides of my fabric pots. So hopefully I can avoid any crossfire if spraying is necessary. I had to spray a little bit of neem a few months ago, and didn’t notice any decline in population then.

I actually have 4 kinds of spiders in the house, and they each have a specific habitat. I have bold jumping spiders in my windowsills, little quick moving ground spiders on the floor, some kind of translucent yellow house spiders that live on the walls and ceilings, and the ones in the tents have a dark circular body with long legs that are so skinny they are practically invisible.

The bold jumpers and those translucent yellow guys are my favorites. I don’t know why I get so much amusement from them haha.

[SCJedi]

@zephyr I swear by this stuff now and it’s cheap and easy to make.

Mites,Thrips, Aphids 'one-n-done' with pics

Ok… first I’d like to thank an ‘Anonymous Friend’ for producing this product. I ask that no members attempt to guess the name, please! He wants to remain anonymous, and that’s how it’ll be, thnx. This recipe is the culmination of literally months of research and work! Not by me… Here is my entire ‘test’ and the recipe for the product. It is a one-n-done’ spray that kills Mites, Thrips And Aphids . Everything, eggs, larvae, nymphs, and adults! Title: MTA UltimateUM// A Diatribe with Benefits! …

[iamyou_youareme]

@zephyr

I just had major setback and pest scare. My propagation tent was completely wrecked by aphids, and I lost everything in there.

Damn! I’m sorry that happened to you. I freakin’ hate aphids.

@zephyr

Everything got nuked with 90 percent alcohol. All the unrooted clones and a small plant in a fabric pot got thrown in the trash. the area got mopped with murphys oil soap, dish detergent, and thyme and lavender oil to kill any potential stragglers in the surrounding area. The tent will sit dormant over the weekend, and then it will be cleaned with bleach before striking the tent and putting it in storage for an aphid egg quarantine period.

I’m pretty sure the aphids were brought in on my outdoor harvest, which I was drying right next to the propagation tent. I never let any outdoor material come near my grow room, or tend the grow room after handling outdoor harvests or trimming. apparently that was a necessary precaution.

Yeah ISO should help kill the eggs and live bugs. I also use BotaniGard WP22 to treat for aphids, but it’s quite expensive. I’ve got a spare bit I can hook you up with though if you need it. Reminds me I need to treat all my moms with it today…

They’re sneaky creatures… they can even hitch a ride on ants or flys I think. At least you caught them fairly early and have treatment measures in place.

@zephyr

I actually have 4 kinds of spiders in the house, and they each have a specific habitat. I have bold jumping spiders in my windowsills, little quick moving ground spiders on the floor, some kind of translucent yellow house spiders that live on the walls and ceilings, and the ones in the tents have a dark circular body with long legs that are so skinny they are practically invisible.

Thats cool, I keep the spiders alive in the basement for the same reason… I don’t go out of my way to feed them, but they do find good spots to setup and catch the few fungus gnats.

@zephyr

Unfortunately, I lost a cut that was very important to me that hadn’t been worked into the indoor lineup yet.

It can make it’s way back to you, I’m hoping I still have a bunch of mothers here, I’ve just got to make sure they make it through Christmas and I can bush them out again to get some good snips going.

[zephyr]

@iamyou_youareme

It can make it’s way back to you, I’m hoping

mr mystery man saves the day once again haha! I was about to send a message but you just read my mind. You’re amazing.

[syzygy]

@zephyr

Am I remembering correctly that ladybugs are the right beneficial predator to use on aphids specifically?

Ladybug larvae are semi-effective at controlling aphids, but typically the ladybugs you buy (adults) are not an appropriate response. Lacewings & their larvae are a possibility, but again, almost all biological controls are just that - control. As long as there are aphids present in a controlled-environment-ag situation the populations will eventually skyrocket. The most effective insect that I’ve personally used on aphids has been a variety of predatory wasps. Banker plants can ensure a steady supply, but that is more of a greenhouse approach. I’m not sure how effective they would be in a tent setup either. Hoverfly larvae similarly , but not sure how applicable that is in a tent setup as well.

There’s always the Botanigard approach, but I really don’t feel comfortable inhaling anything like that. There has been at least one case according to wikipedia of someone with a compromised immune system being infected by Beauveria bassiana (botanigard).

The fungus rarely infects humans or other animals, so it is generally considered safe as an insecticide. However, at least one case of human infection by B. bassiana has been reported in a person with a suppressed immune system.[17] Additionally, the spores may exacerbate breathing difficulties. Wagner and Lewis reported the ability of B. bassiana to grow as an endophyte in corn.[18]

from Beauveria bassiana - Wikipedia

I use it sparingly for certain things but figured it’s worth pointing out, because I believe I’ve read you mention in the past having a compromised immune system.

In my experience neem does nothing to aphids as well.

[Greenhighlander]

I went through this a couple years ago. I documented it . If it isn’t here then it is on RIU or BB.
Either way know that adult ladybugs are not what really puts a dent in them. It is the larvae that do. So to be effective you must have the adult lady bugs reproduce. WHich I did because I gave them the proper environment to. Even then they will not beat back an established population . I also bought lacewings ? I think it was. They did nothing lol
Aphids are easy to deal with when plants are small and you can spray every inch . Not so much once they reach flowering size.

I got mine from bringing clones in from outside and not being careful enough.

[zephyr]

@syzygy

figured it’s worth pointing out, because I believe I’ve read you mentioned in the past having a compromised immune system.

Really appreciate that. Thanks for looking out, these are the kinds of things you will never see on a warning label. That definitely could impact me.

I wear a p95 mask when I spray which is like an n95 with added protection for aerosols and oil vapors, but I try to avoid any biological culture based sprays that could be harmful with my condition.

Big thanks.

[syzygy]

@zephyr

I wear a p95 mask when I spray which is like an n95 with added protection for aerosols and oil vapors, but I try to avoid any biological culture based sprays that could be harmful with my condition.

Yeah, and with any entomopathogenic fungi the infected bodies of the insects eventually sporulate which is partially why it has long term efficacy. You will have mini spore factories anywhere there are colonized insects. So it persists in a sense beyond the initial application.

[zephyr]

Thanks again to everyone for all the help and suggestions.

@syzygy

Ladybug larvae are semi-effective at controlling aphids, but typically the ladybugs you buy (adults) are not an appropriate response. Lacewings & their larvae are a possibility, but again, almost all biological controls are just that - control.

@Greenhighlander

you must have the adult lady bugs reproduce. WHich I did because I gave them the proper environment to. Even then they will not beat back an established population . I also bought lacewings ? I think it was. They did nothing lol

I’ll take a look for that ladybug documentation.

so far I’m not aware of any aphids in the grow room, so there’s not an established infestation. I’m just trying to take some precautionary / preemptive action in case any were introduced.

Probably I’ll just do a light neem and essential oil spray, and hope that it will knock out anything that I haven’t spotted yet.

flowering plants are ready to be chopped, so I’m safe there. just need to protect my mothers in veg.

[Greenhighlander]

Don’t be against a dish soap foliar either. Just stay on top of it every 2 days for 2 weeks or so.

[syzygy]

Episode 62: Do Not Buy Ladybugs For Your Garden with Dr. JP Michaud

Tad Hussey of KIS organics did an interesting interview with an insect ecologist that specializes in bio control. Worth a listen if you’re interested and have the time to spare. From memory, the adults do eat aphids but not really the type you buy, which tend to be older and carrying fewer eggs. They are harvested while they are in hibernation mode and there a whole host of issues associated with that, including harboring potential insect pathogens.

[Dirt_Wizard]

@zephyr

what can I spray in the grow room that won’t harm my beneficial insects

You can use PureCrop1 through harvest without hurting yourself or your beneficial insects, it only messes with sap-suckers. There’s the commercial product and then also a DIY recipe some folks here have made from the OpenSalts wiki, @Cormoran just mixed up a batch to start using, I’ve only used the store bought so far but I love the stuff.

The recipe is:

Pure Crop 1 DIY formula by weight:

80% glycerin
15% corn/soybean oil
2% insecticidal soap (SLS, Dr. Bronner’s)
2% aromatic oil (vanillin, rosemary, thyme)
0.5% guar/xanthan gum
0.5% citric acid

Heat everything through and stir to incorporate. Add aromatic oils while cooling and incorporate.

Use @ 1-2 oz/gallon. Spray until beading on leaves.

They have a ton of good DIY formulas for a lot of things over there and seem to have a good reputation for it all working like it should:

[Greenhighlander]

Ya I went on a huge deep dive back then lol
The adults do eat some but only a fraction of what the young eat. I actually got to even see a few of the larvae munching on some . Pretty sure I even posted a picture of it
I made ladybug houses that had everything they needed to make babies. Thought it was so cool when it did work lol

If I had aphids in my flowering area again , I would chop it all and start again based on my experience with them. That is why I take such drastic precaution bringing cuts from my outside plants indoors.

[JoeCrowe]

I still spray the aphids with safers BTK. Then the syrphid flies and mealy bug eaters clean up the mummified corpses.

[zephyr]

The aphids never showed their faces again, and the grow room was spared. Thanks again for the advice everyone. I did a very light essential oil spray in veg just in case.

---

I had a power outtage that lasted about 10 hours. Everything seems to have held up fine though. Temperature got down to the mid 50s in the grow room.

Veg tent may have had a half hour of light (or less) during their usual dark period when the power was on briefly before dawn. The tent was about to shut off when the power was interrupted, so it would have been brief. I think that will be ok. they probably benefited from the warmth of the lights.

This morning I opened up the tents and gave them some natural light from the windows to try to keep them on schedule.

I kept a stopwatch running so when the lights came back on I was able to easily advance the timers to get them back on schedule.

What would you do for your indoor grow in the event of a power outage?

The worst one for my grow was a few years ago. that outtage lasted 5+ days, with the lights occasionally coming back on randomly for about 10-15 minutes. The plants all survived, but they looked stretchy and stressed out by the time the power was restored. That was pretty extreme photoperiod torture. When I flowered them 2 of those plants hermed a little bit on the lower growth, but the other 6 plants had no problems.

[Rogue]

I look forward to Tesla batteries and solar roof being standard in every house, then none of this would ever happen again …