I think I remember DJ associating the mutants with colchicine treatment of the Thai he used and I believe was using it as a marker in order to find those desirable Thai phenos. I am no breeder and that seems a bit simplistic to me but I believe that was the idea. I’ve never consumed pure Thai so I have no idea if the mutants in his line were true to the Thai effects. To me mutants and variegation are mostly a meaningless novelty and it’s been my experience in non-cannabis plants that they tend to be less vigorous and healthy than non variegated counterparts. The earlier comment about the inability to photosynthesize due to lack of chlorophyll seems like a reasonable explanation for that observation to me.
I’ve yet to encounter any variegation from Bodhi’s F1s yet, but did find it interesting that they came out in some F2s.
Ganja D, no disrespect detected, thank you. As for the deformities/mutations, I witness certain variegation in about 10% to 15% of some of my lines, Cocoa Kush, Vanilluna, Blue Satellite, in particular. These include some crinkle leaf growth and albino leaf area patterns. Neither of these traits affects overall production as all of my lines have been properly dialed-in and proven by many. I also witness some full-on mutations in about 1% to 2% of my lines, F-13 in particular—these are the runt-y little mutants that seem to go nowhere, curl and furl but often finish as preferred medicine (although some patient souls have coaxed fresh/vigorous growth from these mutants and dialed them into production!). Both of these occurrences seem to be related to a colchicine regimen done, I suspect, on the Thai lines (i.e. in Thailand, generations prior to export/import—colchicine is a mutagen used to induce random polyploidy in some species of plants). There have been a number of articles written on the subject and the growth patterns seem to indicate such. Despite being five generations out from the Thai lines, the random polyploidy expressions continue to occasionally sport—proof of authenticity, among other values.
Not me brother but I have seen firsthand what happens when you rigorously select for plant structure.
They can get short and compact to the point of detriment… why I like longer petioles.
For sure! Will be a bit, 3 of the f1s were stunted so i gotta wait till theyre all healthy enough to take cuts and flower. They definitely had mediocre vigor, but im happy to have 5 healthy f1s!
Sadly I don’t have any links. But my understanding of it is actually reversed. No one went in thinking they were correlated. It was just found as the elites got passed around that most of them happen to be the recessive/mutants/etc in their respective lines, so people started correlating that mutant/recessive=potent and started hunting for those. Nevil’s NL5 that became world renown, that he backcrossed to repeatedly trying to recreate in seed form, is a one-off recessive that didn’t resemble any other plant in the line. Triangle Kush has a lot of recessive traits too. They don’t breed true and don’t always pass that potency. Chem91 supposedly does pass that potency really well. Chem D tho, does not.
Some things are markers for linkable traits.
I’m not positive on mutation or recessive having anything to do with potency. That DJ short colchicine/thai correlation is pretty interesting though and could most definitely be a thing
I also have a strong suspicion that stem rub is linked phenotypically to flowers. If you take two different lines with two different stem rubs and cross them, my hypothesis is every single plant with a stem rub like plant A, is gonna have flowers with a high like plant A, and vice versa with plant B traits. Leaf morphology too but I’m less certain there. I’ve seen the stem rub hold true through a couple different fgens but not so much the leaf morphology
Do you have citation for that claim? I didn’t know that photosynthetic rate was positively correlated to cannabinoid content, and I’d love to read more about it in cannabis-specific research.
Variegation is most definitely a lack of chlorophyll. I don’t know for sure if it correlates to cannabinoid content but… it only makes sense… Less chlorophyll means less energy to do stuff… I did also find this:
Which states similar to what I’m stating. They actually go even further and state that any flowers that aren’t green are going to be less photosynthetically active due to increased carotenoids and anthocyanin’s and therefore less chlorophyll that, while they allow the plant to process the extra spectrum, they cannot do so to the same degree that chlorophyll can.
Great links to read there, and the chlorophyll vs anthocyanin tracks with the common observation I’ve seen people make that green phenos seem stronger than purple phenos within the same line. More energy more resin, I guess?
i probably wont be getting into the seeds right away, the plant ive got was basically a volunteer from repacking the seeds i got from an auction, but when i get into em if i turn out a boy hes all yours holy!
Thanks! I was only talking about photosynthetic rate correlated to cannabinoid content, not variegation’s relation to chlorophyll content.
Your links are helpful, but I don’t know that the conclusion you reached necessary follows. I say that because there’s a bit of new research showing that spectrum doesn’t impact cannabinoid content, and that increasing PPFD also doesn’t increase potency after some minimum threshold (around 600PPFD). If this is the case, I don’t think that increased photosynthetic rate has much to do with cannabinoid content.
Also, the other photosynthetic pigments aren’t that far off the efficiency of chlorophyll, so purple weed doesn’t necessarily have less cannabinoid content! Bugbee talks about some of this in his latest appearance on the Migro youtube channel and in some of his other recent videos.
And I think JLP on the Farm was the first to put together this DIY, there’s probably streamlined and improved versions of it on this site too but I don’t know offhand who’s done it, I’ll PM you when I find that:
Edit: this is the OP by JLP two years earlier with ten pages of comments, Logic is such an asshole he can’t even link on his own site.
In regards to purple weed being “weaker” as some have said I found this to be particularly interesting.
Photoreceptors activate
various signal transduction cascades to regulate light-de-
pendent responses via transcriptional factors and related
gene expression. For example, shorter wavelengths, in the
range of blue and UV light, are found to be the most ef-
fective in the accumulation of anthocyanins and flavo-
noids, often by increasing the expression of flavonoid
pathway genes or transcription factors
Our results suggest that manipulation of light qual-
ity during the flowering phase could be a useful tool to
improve the yield of THC and other cannabinoids in can-
nabis cultivation. We suggest that other complex mecha-
nisms mediated by the UV-A and blue wavelengths may
act synergistically to induce CBG accumulation in can-
nabis flowers, CBG being the precursor of other cannabi-
noids.
Blue light and UV light make more THC and cannabinoids while also opening the door for anthocyanin among other chemicals production to ramp up apparently
Anecdotally the LED lights I have that put off WAY more blue light than the others, always make frostier tastier weed.
Anthoycyanin peaks at 540ish, Zeaxanthin at 500ish. Carotene at least comes really close to Chlorophyl B, but generally these 500-550ish spectra are lacking in our lights. So even if the efficiency of anthos are just slightly less than chlorophyl, the spectrum they’re absorbing is output even less by our lights than the one’s chlorophyl use. So that’s a double negative deficit in photosynthetic performance compared to chlorophyl.
The fact 600ppfd is a wall in cannabinoid generation is most likely due to lack of co2 or some other limiting factor besides light. The plant doesn’t have what it needs to use more. so adding more isn’t actually helping anything. Its moot.
The plant needs energy to grow. Cut down on how it gets that energy, there’s gonna be less things. The issue is, we usually can’t make the same exact plant something else. We can’t take a purple plant and make it 100% green to verify if indeed, purple = less potent. All we can compare is her sister, which could have some other factor affecting why we perceive that (in general) green plants are usually more potent than purple ones.
Here’s a question to the group, has anyone grown out a few phenos of one of Bodhi’s crosses using a purple mother to a green father, something like Midnight Cowboy (Mendo Purps x Wookie #15) and seen a notable difference in potency between phenos of different colors?
I think that would be maybe a better set of observations to work from than the Purple Unicorn dad since that one had the goal of being the purple-izer as a stud male.
You win the toxicity award hands down… I bet that you are single handedly responsible for chasing off plenty of good people around here. I didn’t see what happened, but I def saw your reaction. It’s really off-putting…
