Bodhi Time Bandit and Goji

[nube]

I can’t find the reference to trichome color and potency at the moment, but there’s a little bit of new scientific work on the subject (in the last 20 years). I’ll reference three documents regarding it, however here’s the TL;DR version:

As you probably expected, there’s not a black and white answer. The reality is maximum potency depends on a lot of factors, not just harvest time, and can vary by phenotype and environment. The idea of terroir is real. However, many varieties may continue to increase in total active cannabinoids (including terps) until senescence sets in (leaves dying). However, there is no way other than lab testing to determine the optimal time to harvest your plants for maximum cannabinoid content.

First up, a guy named Dr. D.J. Potter did his PhD research in Pharmaceutical Sciences on optimizing cannabinoid production from a few varieties of weed he grew in a lab in 2008 and 2009 at King’s College, London. On pg 125 of his PhD thesis, he noted that increasing flowering time from 8 to 10 weeks increased THC content significantly (an avg of 31%) across his garden, with some plants showing less increase and some more.

Full text for reference can be found here: https://archive.org/stream/CANNABISSATIVAASAPHYTOPHARMACEUTICAL/THE+PROPAGATION%2C+CHARACTERISATION+AND+OPTIMISATION+OF+CANNABIS+SATIVA+AS+A+PHYTOPHARMACEUTICAL_djvu.txt

Next is a nice 2019 review of weed production techniques by a couple of researchers and a testing lab owner in Alberta, Canada. Scrolling down to page 9 in the below PDF and start reading the “Light cycle in the flowering stage” section. They first speak about Potter’s findings noted above, then move on to several other studies on the effects of various environmental changes/stresses and harvest windows on cannabinoid content. There’s a lot to read but they do a pretty thorough review.

2019 Cannabis Indoor Growing Conditions, Management Practices, and Post-Harvest Treatment A Review.pdf (725.6 KB)

One of the articles they review is actually really interesting, as it investigates harvest time on THC, CBD, and terp profiles for three chemotypes of weed (THC, THC:CBD, and CBD). In the 2016 study, it turns out that total cannabinoids continue to increase until week 9 for all three chemotypes, and for 2 of the chemotypes through week 11, although the THC variety has lower slightly lower THC with higher terps by the end of week 11.

2016 Evolution_of_the_Cannabinoid_and_Terpene_Content_d.pdf (3.9 MB)

Anyway, hope that starts you down the rabbit hole. I’ll continue to try to find the source material for the trichome color and its relationship on potency, but it’s been a couple years so no promises. For now, assume that research doesn’t exist and that what I read was speculative.

[SamwellBB]

nice growing - those look

[Badger]

Thanks man. I appreciate that.

[minitiger]

Yeah, what I meant to say was that I’d let them go at least 56 days. I’m not certain when I’m gonna chop them yet, but it won’t be sooner than eight weeks.

One of the things I’ve read (although I’m not sure I think it makes sense) is that the higher the light intensity, the quicker plants will finish, although that’s usually regarding longer-flowering Sativa plants, ones that’ll go for 14 weeks or longer. I dunno if it’d make any difference for something like the Time Bandits. Having said that, I did just add that second light this grow, so maybe? I dunno. Not too worried about it haha.

I haven’t read that amber decreases potency. The only thing I’ve read is that the more amber, the lazier the high. That’s what I’m concerned with. But I agree with you that the Goji won’t be “sleepy” either way. Last time I grew it, it wasn’t like that, although it was definitely more on the laid-back, relaxing side of things. Like I said, this grow started with me planning on the Tangerine Kushes and GOLD STAR F4s (no idea why I said Prayer Towers, it was the Gold Star f4s I planted) being day-time smoke, for the rare occasions when I smoke weed during the day. And the Goji for later in the day. Now it’ll be reversed. Or something.

I dunno. Whatever haha! However they turn out is how they turn out. I think I’ll be able to deal with it haha.

And don’t stop being a judgmental prick. Most people suck. That’s just a fact haha.

As far as dabs are concerned, I’ve honestly never done a dab. Ever. It seemed like too much work. I’d rather just roll a joint and call it a day. But something came over me the last couple weeks (boredom, probably) and I just figured why not get a press and start making fucking rosin or wax or shatter or whatever the fuck it’s called haha. I do smoke cigarettes, though. Hope it doesn’t tear my lungs up too much…

[HolyAngel]

Yeah i’m not sure on the amber decreasing potency, I wouldn’t think so as by the time you get ambers you shouldn’t have many clears left therefore increasing potency.

Also a good thing I read awhile back was:
You can’t make a Sativa have a couchlock-high even if you waited until 100% amber. That’s just not how it works. If the strain would already make you sleepy than a bunch of ambers might increase that a bit, but it won’t go from not sleepy at all to sleepy af just by having some ambers

[minitiger]

Really? I’ve read that you actually CAN make a pure Sativa or Sativa-leaning plant more couchlock-y or whatever by letting it develop a higher ratio of amber trichomes. I dunno why you would, but that’s what I’ve read.

Which just goes to show… NOBODY KNOWS FUCKING ANYTHING haha!

Seriously, though, this plant needs to be studied a helluva lot more. By people who know their shit, like scientists, in a lab, under ideal conditions. Anecdotally is one thing, but seeing some science behind things like that would be much more illuminating. There’s just so fucking much conflicting info out there, about weed and everything else… Having said that, I’m getting ready to set up a veg area where I’ll be able to keep mother plants and clones and shit. Really all I have to do is plug in the veg light and the exhaust fan to make sure my circuit breaker can handle everything, the tent’s been set up for a while (it’s what I dry my plants in). But maybe one of these days, when I find a plant I wanna keep around for a few grows, I’ll do some tests. Harvest plants from the same mother at different stages of flowering and see how they smoke. That’ll still be anecdotal, a lot of people have done that already, but I trust my observations more than anybody else’s. Except Darwin’s haha!

[nube]

Yeah I guess here’s how I’ve always read it. People want to harvest at peak ripeness, peak potency, and the guidance was mostly cloudy, few ambers, few clears because it was implied that ambers = THC degrading into CBN which = lower potency due to less THC. That’s how I read it anyway.

But I’m not sure that amber = THC degraded into CBN. I don’t see much evidence of that.

Anyway, no big deal. I think it’s likely that grow-to-grow variance on optimized watering, soil mix, VPD, CO2 levels, light levels, and a myriad of other things (including state of user at time of ingestion) probably contribute a lot more than an extra week or two of time alive to the perception of the flower’s power. Damn, that’s a terrible sentence structure. lol I hope it makes sense.

That grow-to-grow variance is also why I think supplementing special spectrum is essentially meaningless as long as your baseline light spectrum is good. Way more variance in the end product due to human inconsistency.

Amen to studying this plant more. Get it removed from schedule fucking 1.

[HolyAngel]

Yeah that’s what I had always read, amber = CBN/degraded THC, I haven’t seen anything that proves that it is. But clears barely have any THC at all, I’d rather have a few ambers than a few clears any day. But if you go look up CBN in scientific journals, it has virtually no psychoactive effects. And there’s virtually zero peer reviewed papers showing that CBN causes drowsiness, or is good for insomnia. There’s plenty showing it’s an anti-inflammatory and anti-convulsant as well as being an antioxidant.

[minitiger]

“State of user at time of ingestion” is key. It’s a factor that I don’t think is considered enough and certainly not by the majority of people who “review” weed. Also, grower’s preconceived notion of what the plant is “supposed” to smoke like, whether it be because of the genetics, harvest day, a combination of both or whatever. They go,”Oh, this one has (insert strain name here) in it, so it’s gonna smoke like this. And yes, yes, that’s just how I feel after smoking it.” It’s lazy.

I know that I’ve definitely gone into every grow with an idea of how things are gonna smoke, but I’m not gonna twist myself into pretzels to try to justify my pre-conceived notion when they turn out differently. I actually love it when something like the Clusterfunk, just as an example, turns out way different than I thought it was going to. I’m trying to share real, accurate info online, it’s the only reason I do these grow reports (plus, I kinda like you guys haha!). There’s just a dearth of good information out there. I Love Growing Marijuana? Leafly? Gimme a fucking break. One sentence will say it’s an “uplifting, energizing high” and the very next sentence will say,”Makes you sleepy,” or whatever. It’s garbage.

Sorry, did I just start ranting? I think reading coverage of the RNC is getting me all jacked up. Shit…

Anyway, yeah, I agree with you. You, too @HolyAngel. And a lot of other people on this site. Gasp! Does that make me a sheep???

[ReikoX]

Some research shows CBN to be about as potent as Valium

Perhaps the most striking report about the therapeutic effects of CBN comes from the cannabis testing facility Steep Hill Labs. Its researchers claim that CBN is the most sedative of all cannabinoids, with efficacy that surpasses those of pharmaceuticals. The lab company claim that the consumption of 2.5-5mg of CBN has the same results as using 5-10mg of diazepam (Valium).

Source:

Beyond CBD: Exploring the Health Benefits of CBN in Cannabis

[HolyAngel]

Right but the only Scientific Paper I can find saying so, isn’t peer reviewed or verified at all. That specific one they link in your link, is the one that is not peer reviewed. We need more research for sure sure…

[Sincy]

Isn’t cbn degraded thc . I’ve always heard harvesting plants super late will express this more but I have never had the patience to wait that long and have no way to test. I’ve been curious about growing a balanced thc and cbn line like a 1:1 ratio dynasty had one called divina obscura that was 8%thc and 8% cbd phenos.

[ReikoX]

CBN is, indeed, degraded THC. You could, in theory, convert THC to CBN using an oven, but you lose a lot in that process, particularly the terpenes.

[minitiger]

So what’s everybody’s opinion on lowering humidity levels during the last few days/weeks of flower? Have you guys ever seen that idea floated out there, about how lowering humidity levels increases trichome production? I’m kind of at the mercy of the local weather, even though I grow indoors. Right now it’s getting into the 100’s outside (supposed to get up to 116 today) during lights on, and extremely low humidity levels, around 20%. With all three of my humidifiers running, it’s only getting to about 53% or so in the tent. Sometimes as low as 44%. And because of how hot it is, temps in the tent are getting as high as 84 degrees, even with the AC running constantly.

I thought about just rolling with it, maybe even turning off one of the humidifiers and letting it get into the low 40’s/high 30’s. Anybody ever noticed a difference in frostiness when you let your humidity levels get low while the plants are finishing up?

[HolyAngel]

@minitiger

lowering humidity levels during the last few days/weeks of flower?

Yeah that’s a thing! I wouldn’t go much less than 40% if you can, though. The hotter it is technically the higher the humidity should be to maintain vpd, if it gets too out of whack it can fry the leaves or stunt the growth… or just make it foxtail a bit. But I have seen more frost with lower humidity the last couple weeks. Haven’t been able to quantify it though.

[minitiger]

Okay, good to know. Very interesting. Right now it’s at 52% inside the tent, but the lights just turned on. It’ll get lower for sure, no doubt. I wasn’t really stressing too much about it, but now I’ll definitely not stress about it. It’s fucking crazy-dry where we live right now. And so hot. The hotter it gets, the lower the humidity levels. West Coast weather.

I just set up a veg tent a couple days ago (only took me four years to get around to it) and have eighteen little seedlings in there. Humidity levels are unacceptably low, especially for seedlings. Like 33%. I’ll probably move one of the humidifiers over there and just let the flower tent’s humidity levels get to where they’ll get. Ordinarily, I’d just be vegging those seedlings outside for the time being and move them into the main tent once the Time Bandits and Gojis finish up, in a week or two, but it’s way too hot to leave the seedlings outside past like 9am. Crazy.

[nube]

Inside, lower humidity isn’t a bad thing with dense HP buds late in flower.

Subjectively, I think lower humidity makes for less stinky buds until you grind them. Dunno about its impact on frost. Never seems to be a problem. Some more, some less, strain dependent.

I vote move a humidifier over to the seedlings; they need it more.

[minitiger]

Actually, shit is getting super-stinky right now. I can smell the weed before I even walk into the room, even with a big ol’ carbon filter sucking the air out. Smell reminds me a lot of that Golden Triangle tester, just a sort of “dank basement” “wet carpet” kind of smell. Coupled with maybe a little bit of fruit. I dunno. But it’s smelling super-strong for sure, just not necessarily a typical “weed” smell. I don’t think if anybody walked past the exhaust window, they’d be like,”Oh, they’re growing weed in that house…” Can’t say the same for a lot of my neighbors. I smell their grows half a block away…

The Time Bandits are coming down this Thursday, exactly on day 63. Not too sure about the Gojis, but they’re gonna come down pretty soon, too. I wanna get the new seedlings away from the fluorescents and under some real light. I really only set up my veg tent so I could get two grows in during fall/winter. In November, I’ll start some new plants in the veg tent and start flowering the plants that just broke dirt now. That’s really the main reason why I set up a second tent, so I could get two grows in in the wintertime.

Pssshhhh… Anyway… Love growing that weed! Haha!

[minitiger]

First of all, I just wanna say what a pleasure it is here at overgrow. This really is the best weed site online. I’ve looked at pretty much all of them and this is the one where I feel most comfortable. You guys seem pretty normal haha! And no bullshit back-and-forth,“Nuh-uh! That’s not true, cuz I read it online somewhere where that blahblahblah…”

For real, though. @nube, @HolyAngel, @schmarmpit, @ReikoX. @Sincy, @Vagabond_Windy @stanknugzz77 and whoever else I’m forgetting, you guys are really an inspiration to me. I mean that: an inspiration. Seriously, I’m a fucking DICK, so for me to be going on like this, it must mean something haha!!. I dunno why I’m feeling so sappy right now, but I am… I just felt compelled to mention that I really dig it here.

Anyway, like I said, the Time Bandits are coming down in three days or so, but I was in the mood to take pics when I watered today, so these’ll be the last of the Time Bandit photos. They’re not gonna change much in three days, probably…

Opened up the tent to water this morning and this I what I saw:

Time Bandit #3

Goji #3

Goji #9

Just leeeeeaniiiiin’ and swaayyyyyyyinnnn’… I was pretty surprised about that Goji #9, though. Tied up all of her branches right after I took that picture.

Flowers are definitely getting heavy. I may even wait until day 65 or so to chop the Time Bandits, just because they seem to be getting bulkier and heavier by the hour. I wanna see if branches’ll start snapping. A couple branches on the Gojis already are snapping, I’ve definitely had to do more tying than I’ve had to do in a while. But seriously, when I saw that Goji #9 this morning, I was like"Fuck…!!!" Flopping big-time.

Anyway, Time Bandit #2

Time Bandit #3 closeups

Time Bandit #4

Time Bandit #6

The only OG hybrid I’ve ever grown is Bodhi’s Larry Lotus, so I don’t really have any experience with OG’s, but is it just me or do the Time Bandits have a typical “OG” thing going on? With those nugs kind of scattered everywhere and weird gaps between internodes and shit? I dunno. Looks like a lot of OG’s I’ve seen in pictures, anyway.

OG, OG, OG, OG, OG… Say it again, ten times fast.

And here’s the Goji #3

Shit, forgot I just posted a pic of that already.
#3 Closeups:

And Goji #9 closeups:

Those two Gojis are growing so unbelievably different than the Gojis I grew four years ago. It’s crazy. Nothing similar about them at all.

Anyway, yeah, more pictures. Growing that weed…

Oh, almost forgot, here’s a little full-garden shot:

So, yeah, we’re coming along. Just a few more days now…

[Swe-can]

@minitiger beautiful work !! They all look amazing