For anyone interested in regenative farming practices I would like to recccomend the regenerative agriculture pod cast by John Kempf, scientific, but highly informative.
7 Likes
I donāt think vegetarianism is the answer. In fact I think itās counter productive. I think the animals, and their products, including their meat are an integral part of building a system that works to feed everyone and the eco system.
Iām not saying KNF will work everywhere, or that any of these things will. Thatās kind of the whole point. That there isnāt a one size fits all solution. The industry has tried to make salts and pesticides just that, and there has been too much buying into it. And that buying into it has been subsidized, hard. Maybe that hard buy in was a necessary step at some point, but in hind sight, at this point we have taken a clear mis step and need to recalibrate the whole thing. The only way thatās going to happen is to push back hard against the status quo.
Us wretched creatures are suckers for convenience, and in the world we live in power, money and resources make it easier to get more power money and resources. Continuing on with the broken system we have is what will happen, out of both inertia and convenience, until one day the car finally fails, unless those who are willing to try to look at things as a whole are willing to push back on it as hard as possible.
And food in the United States should be more expensive than it is, I donāt want to get too deep into this because then we will get into wage gaps, living wages, and away from question at hand. The United States spends a lower % of their income per capita on food than any other developed nation on the planet. We are also used to an overall much lower quality of food and health than many of those same countries.
I know none of this is easy, itās not convenient, and it can be a lot for most people to think about in depth. For my piece, I try to do what I can in my personal and professional life to help fix the problem. Far from perfect, but 9 months of the year most of the food I consume comes from CSA of a farm whoās methods are in line with my sustainable ethos or my garden. In the restaurants I have done sourcing/ordering for, everything I did was structured around the ideal of sustainability and trying to keep the money and resources that were available flowing to the supplier and farmers that were supporting other places in line with the ideal of trying to push for a better system. That means that when given the opportunity the menu was shaped around sourcing from these places, rather than starting with a template I had full.
Survival first. Once survival is established, sourcing and sustainability are most important. Survival and sustainability are the same thing in the end, one is just more short sighted.
4 Likes
And subsidies are the ONLY reason it is profitable to farm corn and soy on the scale they are. The same reason a gallon of gas is cheaper than a gallon of milk. That is ass backwards no matter which way you slice it.
5 Likes
Alas, we have gotten a little off here. Iāll hop off the damn soapbox, but Iāll leave with one last thoughtā¦
Even if the synthetic ferts are necessary to provide nourishment to the size of the population that we currently have, is that the better option? Better how and for who? Better for us but not our grandchildren? Better for the humans but not the fish or the deer or the bees? Better for how long?
2 Likes
Yes. A couple billion starving people is a problem, and not just for them, you too. Tell some developing world parent your 3 kids are now starving because rice went up 300%, but hey, our farms are now 100% organic, artisanal, and all natural and whatever other label is currently in fashion. Whatever for the California Whole Foods crowd I guess.
@vernal , I can speak as someone from the developing world, there is a lot of conventional production, subsidized by the government through tax intentions, there are billions annually. Environmental costs are not accounted for, that is, it is a system that is bound to fail, profiting from peopleās lives.
When you finance a tractor, the manufacturer receives first, if you canāt get it, you lose the land to the bank and go to the outskirts of cities.
Or do you think everyone likes to live in slums in Brazil? This was a long process, as a result of the Green Revolution, did you know?
30 years ago, Brazil was 95% rural, because of countries like yours, we were forced to incorporate agriculture that concentrates income even more ā¦ And worse, today we have a record of farmers going hungry, because they produce only one thing, and they still canāt eat because they know itās poisoned
Our problem is not that food is expensive, it is not having the money to buy it, because we have been exploited since the Europeans arrived here. And if we continue to promote the agribusiness discourse, it will get much worse before it gets better.
Look at this UN report and draw your conclusions ā¦
20110308_a-hrc-16-49_agroecology_en (1).pdf (257.3 KB)
8 Likes
you skip right over the middle ground. Rice is a crop that I donāt know as much about as it isnāt as much a part of the system around where in at, so I canāt speak to synthetic ferts. Itās not about being 100% organic or artisanal.
The fact that so much of our actual food crops get produced in California is a huge part of the problem, because these things should be grown much more through the heartland that is full of subsidized monoculture. Itās not about labels, itās about whole systems thinking, and you have continually ignored that point since the beginning of this discussion.
If our society was concerned with people starving maybe 30-40% of the food that enters the Supply chain in the US wouldnāt end up in pans fills. If that kind of altruism was at play in the world there would be more universal health care.
You are arguing there is a one size fits all solution, Iām arguing thatās not the case, things are complicated and we are headed in a bad direction.
You have stopped providing new arguments, just repeating we need them and people will starve without them, and just flat out ignored many of the points I was making. Either you have gotten lazy, or the argument for salts fails to address many of the issues I brought up.
Wrapping it up with a snarky response to what are questions that were posed to illicit critical thinking, well that is devolving this from discourse to mudslinging. That type of thinking, specifically an unwillingness to examine things more deeply, look at it from more angles, and challenge authority and the status quo in search of something better, is not productive. Itās not thinking critically. That is the end of true progress and is a disservice to how much humans have evolved, and also antithetical to your argument that some how in the grand scene of the universe starving humans are somehow more important than the earthly ecosystems that we have and will continue to destroy.
As you said starving people are not just a problem for them, but me too. With this statement you scratch the surface of thinking about how everything in this system impacts each other, but the refuse to address how all of the other parts of this system going to shit will effect the plant. If one billion people starve to death today, or 12 billion stave to death in 100 years because we didnāt change or course of action, which is worse? Is either? We are ants, specs of dust on this planet, yet we think we are special.
The car doesnāt give a shit if we drive it, if we leave it in the garage, if we crash it. But one thing is damn sure, once itās broken down we canāt drive it anywhere.
5 Likes
You know, thereās something strange about this thread. Who forgot to mention organic hydroponic systems? Oh yahā¦heh heh the rules are if itās hydroponic, it canāt be organic.
I misinterpreted the ruuuuules - eric cartman.
2 Likes
To tell you the truth, the living soil kool aide is pretty strange. Iāll explain what I mean. Itās the thing about the bugs hey. Like most of the kool aide drinkers, they will embrace āmy plants are immune to (pest) because I grow organically with healthy plantsā. Or bug resistance.
OK scientists say this, and they are right. Certain plants can ward off certain bugs, itās like an arms race.
If you come and tell me your cannabis plant is going to ward off powdery mildew or spider mites, weāve got a problem. You will definitely have to show me proof, because I frankly have seen no evidence thatās true.
1 Like
Well. This has turned into quite the train wreck.
Food should be free. Smash the state. Eat the rich. Whatever works for you.
4 Likes
The contrarian in me needs to say something like 83% organic. Plastic pots and tap water for the win. 
3 Likes
If nobody minds me skipping 145 posts;
Organic hydroponic is the illest. Flood and drain, with a living reservoir, is next level.
5 Likes
high five on that yah, unfortunately international standards claim itās not organic still. Crazy eh?
2 Likes
Honestly, Iām not too picky about throwing an unnatural food source at my living soil now and then. Poor water management is infinitely more damaging to the soil than a light watering with chemical nutes.
1 Like
The best organic soil you can make or buy . Then quality Grow More made from sea weed 16 - 16 - 16 to start then 4 - 26 - 26 to finish this is all I use sort of . I do add amendments to my soil every season and grow in big bags easy to flush out any salt buildup the winter rains also help with the flush it heads towards the ocean where it came from 
3 Likes
Feels like more of a soapbox than to to elicit critical thinking, but:
A Malthusian argument. So you think we should let people starve to avoid a larger event in the future. I strongly disagree.
Weāll adjust when we have a need to but people are starving now and no matter how nice it would be if everything was a harmonious agrarian utopia, it isnāt. Salt based fertilization is necessary to feed everyone.
3 Likes
It is meant to elicit critical thinking, Iām sure it does come across as soap boxing as I am not a great speaker or writer, and I am very long winded about things I am passionate about. Sorry
I wish I was much more concise as I think it would connect with more readers and make a larger impact on those who read it. I think you missed a lot of the points in my arguments, and totally misconstrued others. That may be my fault for how they were delivered.
If it gets anyone thinking from a different angle than they have before it wasnāt in vain
Everyone please read the posts by @Chronickyle & @Gugumelo if you happened to skip over them because they were buried between my verbal vomit
3 Likes
This topic really interests me too.
My first main grow was with organics and making teas all the time. I was also using Earth Juice with guano. That was the tastiest weed Iāve ever had in my life. It would leave a fruity like taste on my tongue that would linger after vaping it. Most of the different strains had a very similar taste.
At first I thought it was from the guano. Iāve heard something called mangoing.
Then I was thinking molasses, or the Brix levels.
Another theory is just a really healthy and active microbe population when I was doing teas every time.
Iām not sure if itās just broscience, but the subject definitely interests me.
7 Likes
Canāt agree with you on this one bro-
After surviving a close call, I decided to eat clean and healthy as possible.
No comparison in how I feel, with fast food, compared to buying organic at the grocery store and cooking at homeā¦
5 Likes
you grew different strains with the same flavor? Did I read that right?
1 Like