Oh hell yeah, good to have ya back bro, glad ya had a safe trip…after I get the morning chores done, deff coming back to talk more about this, Im no scientist as yall know and lack alot of the lingo used but Ive purposefully and accidentally bred reptiles, fish, (I did help produce one human child if that counts) and now plants, and this is one area where understanding the science is quite important, you seem to have a good basic understanding(shit, those graphs of yours tells me your hungry like me!) as well as Im sure alot of our fam does here, but I could really use a refresher on the whole subject. I like what your saying and I think I understand it so far, though just to use your large autoish plant as an example, it could not be, imho, f1 and be a confirmed full “fast flowering” as that particular match would have to be taken to f3 at least to be able to stabalize and get uniform offspring, its like you said, auto x photo = 1/4 auto, 1/4 fast/in-between, 1/2 photo, at least thats my understanding…what I think happens is this, guys have been crossing autos to photos and just selling the f1s as fast flowering or xxl but it could be any of the mix and most peole just aren’t gonna be upset with a few short autos, a couple big fast flowering and any true photo periods just end up getting flipped, especially on small orders, these guys know we just want some bud, could be totally off here though…so to achieve full size fast photos, we’d have to find the one in four of each and breed together, then any two of their offspring will create the fully uniform results(f3)? Just my understanding, and basically what you had previously explained…lol…this stuff is so much fun to talk about but it can get confusing when someone like me doesn’t know the proper terminology, so Ill go do a primer so I can keep up! Chucking Talk Tuesdays, wait…it is Tuesday, right?
Apparently we are all in agreement on the hornworms. About to go out and see if they left us any tomatoes…good morning all 
So yeah, I basically did that thing where someone says something, then someone repeats it yet somehow sounds to be disagreeing or stating something new…my apologies Field, I didnt mean to come across like that, I have a hard time coming through in my communication sometimes, I rush alot, not knocking your plant or its genetics, she sounds really nice and its obvious you put alot of love into your ladies. I appreciate the conversation about pollon chucking/breeding(whatever we call making beanz) and got kind of excited! I’ve basically come to the conclusion that all one needs to create an amazing assortmentof new and unique crosses/cultivars is only a few packs of decent genetics(experience blah blah blah), as wide a selection helps, but we can move our projects in purposeful direction if we chose wisely and stay focused. I have a small amount in my collection compared to so many others but I am confident that if I actually go through what I have, one pack or example at a time and just keeping photographic notes as well as these pages and conversation, but the plan is to stop buying unnecessary beans at quit high prices for f1s, I dont have the money for top shelf, either bandwagon or actual worked lines, so Ive also collected, as FieldEffect so awesomely shared with us, a few old bag beans from a few dank sacks(very cool man, cant wait to see what you have!), still messing around with mine and still needing to pop some for the first time in twenty years, but out of all the 20 breeder packs or so I have, Ive actually never spent more than 100 bucks on a pack and the one that I did contained roughly 85 seeds! Most packs have cost me between 40 and 75 for ten+ regs and 50 or so for auto fem 5 packs. Have maybe actually popped 1/10th of that so I figure I dont need to ever buy anymore if I can manage a seed run of at least one pair of each and 
going to share my crosses to anyone interested…and from what Im finding out personally and from what I see here…managing a seed run is almost impossible not to do, here and there. Anywho, I hope I didnt come across as bad as I think I did earlier, I had just woke up! I confess I have been frothing at the mouth to share/brag about this seasons crosses…so since you guys wont leave me alone about it 
…without any further dilly dallyin, Here we go!
Banana OG(male) x (Strawba the Hut x Samsqautch OG, Mephisto auto freebie)
Banana OG X Strawba the Hut
Banana OG x Jersey Gardens mystery(some chem d influences if Im not mistaken but since I dont know, We’ll just call her Fire!)
Then I used another male from a freebie pack of Fiona’s Chem Cake to pollinate those same three ladies, different colas, a few days later, I know this is not going to give me 100% confirmed results but I cant say it enough, Im just doing this for my own amusement and for anyone who wants to try them, as soon as I get my legal issues in order. Not a license, just off papers!
So that was the Banana Og and Fiona’s Chem cake, both males were flowered using light deprivation so full disclosure, but before them I took a Banana Berry Muffins male and also using light dep, pollinated Snowfire Afghan kush(same mother that I took the big lone clone from thats in the garden…lol…funny to think that she was just a wee little side sprout at one point…) Grape Greases, and the other clones mother, Don Johnson. Then two more autoflowers were hit, Double Smile and El Chemi Kiwi. All plants used are f1 to my knowledge. But the autos are f1s of other full autoflower plants so this is where what FieldEffect was talking about earlier really comes into play, and is probably what confused me, not that I’m still not confused because I am very confused atm, but yeah, this is where Im at with my own chuckin…some of the crosses only produced 7-10 seeds, so those Im going to really try and get right and will come back to them once I have some more experience, other crosses(like the Banana OG stuff) we ended up with over 100 of two types…so feelin good about things and really have just wanted to talk about this because just as growing ones own herb is freeing, producing seed is that much more of a way to see this plant for what it is and not just some profit making “drug”…you guys all said it, gardening in itself is healthy and helps to find one’s self, add cannabis and the benefits become more and more apparent. Here are this years seeds…
I also have some accidental stuff from last year that has already show to easily herm but is feminized due to the accident so Im still messing around with them, just got em on the back burner for now. Definitely worth looking back into.
So as soon as I get a chance, meaning after this outdoor is done, I plan on getting into those photo x auto beans and really find out the hard way, just what to expect from them.
Thanks for reading and hope to hear some thoughts on the subject, please feel free to point out anything that Ive got wrong or am not clear on, hope all is well
And please share any pollen chucks of your own of course!
Thank you, good to have you here 
That Hella Jelly has got me hella jelly, would love to see that one and the Hawaiian Snow. Great choices all around!
Morning Dendro! I posted a trich pic of my photo-auto grow on the bottom of this post in My second season of outdoor growing - #54 by FieldEffect I’ll be posting there again tomorrow with an overall update, and chop pics from the Critical Kush auto that’s getting all ambered up.
You’re a lot deeper in this than I am, and certainly don’t read your posts as being disagreeable. At all. This is all relatively new to me, and regardless of what I know, what I think is usually a combination of many things that I’ve read but like anything I have to see it first to actually validate my opinion and turn it into something I “know.”
To be clear I think the progression between a Photo (AA) x Auto (aa) would be:
F1: (Aa) Uniformly non-auto, but the auto gene is partially shaded by the photo gene
F2: 1/4 regular photo (AA), 1/4 auto (aa), and 1/2 non-auto as per F1 generation (Aa)
F3+ (of two of the F2 full autos): Uniformly aa
It seems evident to me that it’s not as simple as a single genomic trait. It may well often manifest that way, but the evidence in my backyard is encouraging. I think there are going to be good potential crosses from the first hybrid level, I just wouldn’t expect anything full and consistently auto until F2-3 (pretty sure we fully agree there).
I’m hoping the Hella Jelly gets me somewhere close to the bag I got a long time ago, it has similiar lineage and published effects. We’ll see soon 
I’m interested in these crosses. Particularly the Banana OG stuff. I guess we’ll find out next season, and this is one of the several reasons to grow indoors…impatience 
Gotta run, time to get ready for work. Friday-Sunday weekend and garden time is almost here
My Dude! Those plants and your thread are top notch! Doing really nice work. Nice and clean. Really making me want to organize my routine a bit. Over time I’ve gotten lazy! I really admire your precision and natural talent but also your ability to keep it real and just ask questions, dont worry, Im not gonna say something cheesy like “reminds me of myself a few years back” lol because actually I do recognize that hunger to learn but you seem to have a really great understanding of all this(read, better than I) and especially for someone on their second grow. I really fumbled around and still do! Pure instincts are where it counts though, that and the ability to stay focused and not let the lifestyle change your patterns. Honestly man, Im impressed with what your doing. And thank you for backing me up on my own doudts. I do that alot. Totally agree that its truly hard to know anything. We all only have our beliefs and can try to prove things out yet the “truth” of anything is always up for debate IMO. But with all that aside, we can and should go on our own observations for we have to make up our own mind at some point. If it works we stick with it, untill we find something better for ourselves and the rest of our environment. Glad this place is so friendly and open minded. Truly grateful
I think we can agree on the progression(for now!) and as you said, the future reveals all! Your right that genetics can be very tricky because there is always that 1 in a 100 that will go against the norm so our observations will always be somewhat clouded, in the end we will have to do the work ourselves, over and over, and then still be prepaired for new genetic shifts as new growers and seed makers create new mixtures of this plant we all love so much!
Thanks again for the always uplifting words, be safe and have an awesome day. That goes for everyone! 
The garden in the rain late yesterday…
Thanks so much for the kind words. They come at a perfect time, I’ve been struggling to stay positive with tons of stress in my life, on basically all fronts except the garden. The last two weeks have been HARD, and life always seems to present the biggest challenges when already preoccupied with something else. Like we’ve talked about a week ago, symbiotic, positive things also seem to come at just the right moments. 
The great news is that most of the stressors have been handled and can kind of relax for a while now. It’s going to be a mellow weekend and I can recover a bit. Amazing to see support like that come out of the woodwork, in a place I wouldn’t have expected, at the perfect time to kick-start my weekend of de-stress. Truely, that meant a lot. Thank you.
Happy looking plants there, and getting big! I’m heading out to my own garden to see how they’ve been. We got a nice rain yesterday too.
Yo! Well that was wierd, glad that the team here was able to take care of things, was getting worried about old flashbacks…(that or i had certainly believed to have been banned for the last day or two and trying to figure out what I had done lol 
) then I had drank one and a half drinks at the restaurant last night and I shit you not, I have been laid up and dying like some kid having his first couple beers, but I know enough to know that this is the result of all my past shenanigans, my worn out body just cant handle it anymore, “I don’t always drink beer, but when I do, I turn into the goddamn chick from the exorcist!” So just rolling up a fattie as I type, relaxing and enjoying the fact that these pages are still here, and FieldEffect, I also couldn’t be more thankful to have read your kind and greatful words of truth and encouragement. Its simply amazing how much we all have in common. Just as the weather comes and goes and seems to be of separate systems, the butterfly effect of emotion is also quite connected. Further still, It seems to me that our emotions and the weather are also indeed interactive just as everything that ever was or will be is also connected to each and every one of us. We are the good, the bad and everything in-between. Literally, the embodiment of consciousness. Ok, Damn, this weed is good lol…my bad, I ramble…very happy to read that you are having a nice relaxing weekend. I hope that is still going on, as well as with all the Fam here
I’m wiped out tonight and gonna rest up, have barely been able to do the basics of feeding and watering of animals and I just got a quick second to see that the plants are all reaching for the sky, so in the end, All is Well, very thankful for this community and even more grateful that it didn’t get shut down, I will be back in action hopefully tomorrow
From yesterday…
Melon Redemption in full gear…
(I may or may not have shed some tears over the last immature ones
) waiting for browning of the stems this go around, as well as all other signs of ripening…
Don Johnson(Freak Genetics)is by far in the lead of all other cannabis plants, she literally already has trichs forming and very fast flower formation, she has been thinned and hacked so much its ridiculous, gonna let her rip from now on, wouldn’t be surprised if shes done by mid September…
And here is an inside shot of Snowfire Afghan Kush(Digital Genetics) all naked inside and tied up with twine, bamboozled and stretched out, both her and the Don were topped at the fifth node or so…
I truly pray that you are all safe and happy tonight and whatever any of us are dealing with these days, we are not alone. Please, be hopeful and search for faith in the ONE LOVE we are all a part of.
Listen to Space Tree by Medium Troy on #SoundCloud
Plants looking well! Ebb and flow in the connected universe, mine are also well. Definately feeling better this afternoon.
On the watermelons…wait at least a week longer than you think after all signs of ripeness. It seems to me like a a coin toss regardless of the signs. The dryed stem was supposed to be a sure-fire thing, but that Ali Baba I almost picked last weekend got picked yesterday. It had the signs: Pale yellow ground patch, nice hollow sound, dried sprig opposite the melon. And it was a big dissappointment. It wasn’t bad, but not as good as the one I had to sample before it. Could have used another few weeks. I really don’t get how they know these things are ripe or not.
I wonder if I could use a long syringe or something to pull a sample out and then tape the rind perforation over…maybe I’ll try that. Googling “6” hypodermic needles buy online" is probably going to get me put on some kind of list but I’ll risk it 
Damn bro, that hurts. I know your pain… But dude, that just might work!? thats awesome, you really are an engineer, always thinking up something different! Always a solution:ok_hand:…I was thinking about what you said about how long the packet says versus reality and it definitely seems to be similar to the weed game, most recommendations seem premature. Maybe under extreme optimal conditions, but man, Im sorry that the stem didn’t tell the truth, was it really shriveled or just slightly browning? (Mine were just barely brownong) What color were the seeds or was it seedless?(mine were still greenish) And finally, how many days since germination or transplant? I didn’t keep good enough notes…Again that sucks! But I sincerely appreciate the info, I would have been picking mine again too early and I don’t think I could handle another let down. Do you still have more on the vine? I hope so! Mine have produced a few more, around 5 or 6 new big ones and it seems more are coming in every few days, I still haven’t picked anymore, was waiting for the stems but I guess I’ll wait even alittle longer, I might just cut one in a week or so, but yeah, these are not easy to tell when ripe, they certainly look good and yours looked good a month ago! I pray that you also have Melon Redemption…
I was also thinking about the auto gene talk…it seems so far that most places I read up on have said something very similar to our agreed progression. I also have two little plants going atm that agree so far with the theory. I dont have pictures because well, you get it…but if you can take my word, they are so far looking to be 1. A full auto from seed that my brother accidentally produced, he didn’t know who the father was but the seeds came from a “Northern Cheese Haze” f3 (Mephisto), at the time I believe he only had other autos in his tent but previously he had a photo period that hermed on him so it was hard to say were the pollen came from, fast forward and that one has been grown out and it indeed auto-flowered, though very fast, too fast, as I am a believer that if the root system of an auto gets binded up, it will also flower, I had used one of those peet pellets without thinking and it flowered in like two weeks lol…ten inches tall, but what this tells me is that the mother either pollinated herself or another auto in the tent produced a male cluster, the other plants in the tent at the time were another of the same strain and two more “Strawberry Nuggets” f3 (Mephisto) which I have personally grown and I did witness an early male flower on it, never pollinated anything but this leads me to believe that could be the father, a long long guess but the leaf formation, structure, and smell all point to this conclusion…I also have a small plant who’s mother is an “El Chemi Kiwi” again from Mephisto…the father is Banana Berry Muffins(Banana Og x Blue Berry Muffins) from Nachos and El’Sapos(recently I read that their Banana Og was used in a very potent cross called “Tyson Uppercut”, mother is Platinum Swabi Punch, with the new cross clocking in at an unbelievable 38%, not sure how accurate this is but I cant believe my luck on landing these rare beans, heads up to any fellow bean hunters out there, this is like a stock tip imo…40-50 bucks a pack, you cant lose) so anyway this one plant is photo x auto and is indeed proving out to be full photo, so nothing really concrete or conclusive yet it all agrees with what we’re reading.
Well, the search continues for the perfect auto and the perfect melon. Keep me updated on the syringe idea…an ultrasound machine would probably be over kill…but sooo worth it!
So dope…
Listen to 07 998 Good Bricks by Zakaraka & Imaginomics on #SoundCloud
Not much going on today…Just some photos of todays rainy day in the garden…
And a couple indoor throwbacks just for fun…
Skywalker autoflower(Mephisto)
Gorilla Hammer(Freak Genetics)
Jilly Glue(Mz.Jill)
Excellent colas man 
Great looking pot, your outdoor ladies are certainly getting pretty tall too! I’ve been looking into better auto breeders like Mephisto and Night Owl. What are the flavors like on on the Gorilla Hammer and Jilly Glue? Fruity like they are supposed to be? They all look like tasty looking strains/grows 
Watermelon: The tendril was crispy. I used a smaller needle last night to test the idea. Spouse definately questioning my sanity now, but the needle wasn’t big enough (28 gauge so it’s really narrow and about 2" long) - I’ve got a few needles sitting around for dispensing glue/oil, they were the only ones that looked long enough to have a chance. I got a few drops of juice, which was enough to confirm it’s a watermelon but hardly enough to judge whether it’s ready or not. I’ll swing by the feed store today and see if they have something bigger to try. I alcohol swabbed the melon before I poked it and put some kapton tape over the hole afterwards, hopefully it doesn’t get infected.
Autos: What’s the problem with the peat pellets? I’ve used those and rather like them. Was that 2-week flower still just in the pellet and not transplanted yet? Here we’re allowed 12 outdoor plants although the autos fly under the radar, I think you’d want to run at least 4 of any cross to expolore more expressions. Nacho and El Sapo is a breeder I’d never heard of, interesting. There’s so many options in terms of breeders it’s hard to make decisions. This year I limited myself to stuff that I thought would perform well outside, now I’m discovering I’m in a pretty dang good climate and can probably run anything I want.
Cheers man, have a great day!
Thanks man, that was my first grow inside, beginners luck for sure. All clean soil and did everything half strength…now I have to constantly fight the fungus gnats as well as my unwillingness to use proper amounts of nutrients. Always pushing the limits. Thinking of starting all over this winter with new soil and updated equipment, just to make sure the new auto/photo beans make it out alive. Ive really enjoyed alot of Mephisto genetics, some have been hit or miss, but you cant go wrong with their Skywalker, Mango Smile is a nice auto sativaish plant, I saw they did a wedding cake version recently. They deff keep getting better, but as we’ve discussed, Im on my own now! Haven’t tried NightOwl but I think they use alot of the same genetics, affiliated maybe? If you go through them(Mephisto, as well as most breeders)directly, its a really good deal for the quality. They are all about freebie crosses, so great marketing 
I believe that most good auto breeders out there have probably used Mephisto genetics to start with, doubt that a lot used there own ruderalis and they go back like ten years now…
The Gorilla Hammer(Freak Genetics) was the best plant period out of them all, a real monster, cake batter and battery acid with blackberry frosting, out of all the plants Ive grown, that was one of the best ever and was grown in a small 1gal container. I believe the breeder can be found on these pages? The Don Johnson, in the garden now, is another strain of his. And the Jilly Glues were good, grew fat monster colas, feminized but still a huge difference between the two plants, so dense, but the side by side with the GH told the tail. Thats when I decided that I’d just do alittle good reading and go with lesser known breeders that have good results but don’t charge an arm and a leg. The smaller seed banks are a big help if you ask me, once you find the right ones. On the East Coast, Dc Seed Exchange is a good place to start
Thats hilarious that you actually performed a medical procedure on a watermelon…lol…that had me cracking up…ill bet you were getting some funny looks…but I get it, there has to be a fool proof way we can check these babies. Thats just crazy that the stem was dried but the melon wasn’t done, I mean, what else can we do? I will definitely always just cut one from now on, as its just too risky, though, after cutting the first three, there are now twelve melons total so it might help to keep em coming by picking one here and there. I think Im gonna try one of mine that has been on the vine the whole time, its been at least two or three weeks since the pink ones so this one should be ready, its just that tendril is still full green, so yeah, melons are serious! Between the alien death bugs and not knowing when to pick them, definitely planting more berry bushes and fruit trees. Ill stick with the melons too but its time to branch out. I’ve had alittle return of the squash bugs so hoping they dont get any worse. At this point though, all the cannabis plants are starting to flower so not going to use anymore synthetic pesticides, just a couple more rounds of neem.
And finally, Im not sure what the deal is with the peat pellets, they work fine on my photo periods but everytime Ive used either those or the little cardboard containers that are supposed to break down, the plants(autos) grow ok but flower extremely fast, stay smaller and when I’ve checked the root mass, it never has made it out of the first containers! Just all main taproots all wrapped up with not much pushing out to the rest of the container/soil used. Like I said, this last one flowered like instantly and is maybe ten inches tall, sprouted in the peat pellet and then transplanted into a 7gal fabric pot, everything went perfect but it just started to flower too soon. Ill check the roots after its done in a couple of weeks, the wee little gal! I get that it could be so many different things but the fact that it did auto flower, is what leads me to believe it was fathered by another auto, but yeah, I definitely agree that as many seeds as possible need to be proven out to know what we’re really dealing with. (And just to be clear, I had been keeping her on an 18/6 manual outdoor schedule so I dont believe it was the natural light/dark schedule that caused her to flower.) Our silly four limit here and the fact that I’m still on papers is why I cant do things properly. Holds me back, it sucks how mistakes can follow one for so long in life, Scarlett letters and shit…
Just going to go straight into the soil next time as to not bind the roots, get a better idea. But so far my photo x auto bean is showing to grow ‘normal’ and the possible S1 is growing full auto. Will definitely be doing the four at a time this winter to get a better understanding and to be able to further cross and to complete more generations. Everything Im doing now is still practice untill we can have those extra plants that we need, four is just too weak, but we do what we can! This winter should reveal all and produce some cool new cultivars along the way. We’ll keep at this thing!
and hopefully your day is treating you well too bro.
Hey All…Hope the day is treating you right… After seeing the thread on “Growing Secrets”(or something like that)…I offer my get high as giraffe nuts in 5min flat tip for when your stash of extracts has conspiracy theory level “just vanished!” or even when your tolerance just happens to be way, way up there(possibly even higher than those giraffe testicles)…
So to start, I take a small amount of suger leaf and place in a sealed zip lock or similar…
Then simply place in the freezer for 5min or so…
While waiting for correct temperature, always check your OG profile, write an entire thesis on a simple to understand subject taking at least two hours longer than you were planning to, then when ready, remove bagged trimmings and gently crush the now frozen plant matter until the trichs easily separate and are then carefully tapped down into a single corner of plastic bag…
Now, all we need to do is pack that nice little pile of “dirty hash” on top of a slightly loaded bowl, and presto…tolerance is now even higher than those mysterious shoes that dangle from telephone wires?..No worries Fam, Thank me later!
I like the topic going about Brittany G. and having been in prison before but I didnt want to post this in the thread so puttin this here instead…
Listen to Run by Medium Troy on #SoundCloud
Its a good topic all around, yes it gets heated quickly because people have been harmed for so long by these archaic laws, why are we here on a site called overgrow if we cant talk about the political side of all this?
Well, for one, if we fight nonstop we wont be doing too much growing, so if we disagree, lets just agree to disagree, cool?
Listen to Present Ghosts by Dopapod on #SoundCloud
