Do you smoke Thai?

[StocktonT]

Well it all depends on how one define the term IBL and if it should be true for all traits or just some. I do agree that through most of the C99 lines I have seen there’s been a few things that seem to be dominant, like early maturing flowers but I have also seen variations in flavor, smell and high which to me makes it not true for those traits. Not all C99 have a tropical flavor/smell but many do.

C99 is supposedly a Jack Herer as the bud where the seed the mother (the recurrent parent in MrSoul’s backcrossing schedule) came from was allegedly Jack Herer from the Sensi Smile Coffee shop. It’s no way of knowing if the pollen came from the same female plant, another female in the same line, a male from that line or if it was totally unrelated. The genetics of Jack Herer has never been disclosed by Sensi Seeds but it’s allegedly a mix of Skunk#1, Northern Lights 5 and Haze. Nevil said it was the same breeding pedigree (not the exact same plants) as his Super Silver Haze which is (NL5 x Haze C) x (Skunk#1 x Haze C). So even if it was only Jack Herer involved it has at least three different lines in it’s making.

I do agree though that C99 usually is worked much more than a usual line and if people also are continuing that work down the filial generations it would sure be more inbred but also the result depends on the selection each step.

I still have some quotes form almost 20 years ago when Soul talked about his second release of C99 which was the P97 or 4th backcross. He said that the results were counter intuitive and gave more variation than the P94 or 3rd backcrossed generation did. Maybe I am just too hard on the definition of IBL but this discussion was up already back then when Soul called his C99 true breeding which set some people off. Again I agree it seem true for some traits but even the P94 were not all the same.

I have also seen Chimera lay out a bit more complicated genetic models on what happens if you filial breed the C99 and it will segregate more but then again applying selection is key. His model, as far as my layman comprehension of genetics go, was assuming using all plants which I assume people have not done when making their own versions of C99. They applied their selections on the line.

[StocktonT]

This is one of the old quotes about C99 and how he made it, not that it states that the 3rd backcross is what he calls “Cinderella 99”, not the 4th like he states today.

[Upstate]

Jack Herer and Haze make a 50 day plant? I dont think thats possible. Is it? I think Haze was crossed with something else to make C99. There were many years there was no Brothers Grimm C99. I thought this was because they lost their genetics somehow…and didn’t have the stock they needed to reproduce it. Yet Haze and Jack Herer have always been easy to find. Doesn’t make sense. I think someone is hiding the ingredients of this secret c99 recipe! Not many strains flower in 50 days. In fact, for sativas there is only one. And the structure of it looks exactly like the Kwik seeds photo of cindy. I think that Ciskei from Tropical Seed Company was used. TSC received seeds of this short flowering gem from a defunct seed company, and reproduced it to make it available again. This would explain why Brothers Grimm couldn’t make c99 for awhile…there was no Ciskei available. Then tropical seeds releases it, and c99 is reborn a relatively short time later. Ciskei is a 55 day Sativa. Tsc has/had a photo of a Ciskei plant that looks remarkably similar to c99 on kwik seeds. Just an educated guess on my part, but everything matches better than jack herer.

[StocktonT]

Yea that was my point to as C99 is quite early and even Jack Herer, which is not a pure haze by any means, would flower for a few weeks longer in my experience. I don’t know what those females that came out of the bud in Amsterdam was and nor does MrSoul. He and others used to assume it was Jack Herer pollen that made it but it could be anything. I agree that making a filial generation of JH wouldn’t always produce such fast flowering plants.

No they stopped selling seeds in 2001/2002 and their stock was finished by 2003. I think the new MrSoul have elaborated a bit on the story as to what he did during the time he was gone. The old company was MrSoul and Sly, the new company MrSoul teamed up with Duke. Don’t know if he (Soul) really got all the building blocks like the real Princess cut but I guess if people kept it alive and gave it back to him it’s possible but the new releases would be new selections on the male side hence why he is selling P97 or the 4th backcross, I don’t think he had any P88/C88 seeds left to select from so he took P94 or C99 and selected a new male and did yet a backcross, in best case scenario.

Yes I agree with you on the Kwik Seed photo being a real nice one, I sure think it looks better than Brothers Grimm’s new photos of their new C99. Never grew the Ciskei or saw it so I don’t know. I think the structure of the Kwik Seeds C99 looks on point due to their selections. I have seen other people making their versions of C99 that were like that too and there are some that are different in that they’re not that branchy and they make bigger flowers with a bit more mellow high than the kind of energetic and up beat high of some of the C99 phenotypes.

Something sure is hiding in that initial cross with JH that Soul bought buds from but what has always been the million dollar question. The funny thing is that the sister, Genius, makes similar type of seeds so getting two seeds in a bud that gives offspring that flower that quick sure points to something else but JH added to the mix. I actually think some of the Genius offspring flowered even quicker for me. I always took my C99 to 56 days or even 60 not that you couldn’t cut it at 50 but I grew under 400 watt lights back then. I had some Apollo 11 and some other crosses with Genius and C99 in the mix that were done right on day 50 and they were really good. I agree with you there’s not many lines with that quick flowering time delivering that type of high.

[Upstate]

Check out the pictures of tropical seed companies Ciskei. You may have to go on a website other than tropical seeds to see the photo of the full plant I am talking about. I hadn’t heard the story of the Jack Herer being used. Maybe Jack Herer was crossed with that small South African variety. Crazy how much it looks like c99 from Kwik seeds. All this talk of c99 has me wanting to grow it, but my plate is full for the summer. Anyone reading this have ciskei? It would be interesting to cross this with Haze, and see what comes out… what are the flowering times for Jack Herer? I seem to remember 9 weeks? Is that about right? I never did smoke any of that. I’ve heard it’s wonderful. Last question. When is the finish time Outdoors 4C 99? I know it flowers fast, but I heard it’s a late starter. Please include latitude

[StocktonT]

Well I think all C99 comes from the first version of Brothers Grimm. People made seeds with their plants from those seeds and then people made seeds from the people who made seeds and so on. I remember Jack Herer from the 90s and the first versions of that line was the best. At one time the buds from JH fetched the same price as the best imported hash per gram which was crazy but it was very popular back in the day. The first version wasn’t that stable so there were everything from 9 to 13 week plants maybe longer I never saw a lot of them grow so I can’t speak from firsthand experience on that.

Funny you mention the south african, you mean Durban right? When Soul came back he had this new theory that maybe it was Durban pollen that made those seeds with Jack H that he found in those flowers. It could make sense as Durban was a mostly Sativa type and it was rather quick too. I have had some C99 from seeds made by a private guy that were spot on C99 but they didn’t have the tropical flavors but more of a salty, spicy and a bit anise taste when finished which the Durban also had. But I think we will never know, it’s like a lot of other bag-seeds that got famous I guess, like Chemdog, don’t think they will ever know what pollen made those first seeds but the plants and the seeds made from those plants are today legendary things.

I only grew C99 indoors but in my experience it was the first one to start to flower and the first one to finish for me. It would always show pre-flowers in veg and it would also clone very fast compared to most other lines. It save christmas more than once for me and some in my circle as it would be the first bud ready to smoke and I would always fuck up and plant too late for the fall grow but somehow usually managed to have at least one C99 plant cut and dry for a few days before christmas. I have smoked buds off her from day 47 that were really good and I smoked 70 days flowered bud that were good. I always liked it more on the early side though as it had that energetic and up beat high to it.

[Upstate]

I lov

@StocktonT

Yea

e that upbeat energetic I! I’ll be sure to pick it up a bit early when I grow it. Yes I know all c99 came from Brothers Grimm, I should have been more specific in saying that the offerings out today would be made with different C99 plants that’s all. Same parents of course, just different Offspring for the reproductions. The c99 from kwikseeds sell out very fast. I hope it’s not a new generation every time they release seeds. Hopefully they’ve been keeping clones.

[StocktonT]

That is always the hope when one finds a good version, that they keep clones and are able to repeat that special seeds. Like I said the picture of their version looks like something I would really like to grow. Looks to be a nice branching structure just like the phenotype I look for. The one I posted earlier in this thread looks a bit different as it was a seed plant in the picture. When cloned and grown in a bigger container it looked much more like that one. The phenotype I would go for was low yielding compared to most other indoor hybrids but growing her in a bigger pot (than in that picture which is a 20 liter pot) and amending the soil with a lot of worm castings would always do the trick for me. She loves magnesium and it can be a bitch trying to feed her with liquids so mixing it into the soil would always give great results as well as giving her a bit more root space in say a 30 liter pot, would make for a decent yield.

Moscas C99 yielded much better but it wasn’t that exact phenotype that I look for. It was very tasty but more mellow, not that laughing and going out to do shit weed more like chilling weed but still good. I think the biggest variations in effects are the scale between the electric high ones and the more mellow and darker flavored ones. It’s probably from the Shiva Skunk that the Princess was outcrossed to in the beginning of the cubing process where some selected plants with slightly wider leafs and fatter flowers. They often had even a deeper flavor but not that special high in my opinion.

Here’s a picture of a cut and a picture (not a good one) of a quarter of my tent filled with a C99 clone in a big pot with some nice worm castings added.

[StocktonT]

Evident is my neck for taking cuts a week or two into flowering as you can see on that clone but they always reverted back into veg mode without problems…

[StocktonT]

Here’s another pic of a cutting, they seem to have slightly wider leafs when in veg but they always thin out when flowering…

[Upstate]

@StocktonT

Well I think all C99 comes from the first version of Brothers Grimm. People made seeds with their plants from those seeds and then people made seeds from the people who made seeds and so on.

That’s what I was trying to quote haha.

[StocktonT]

Hahaha I get it don’t worry! I also love that kind of high. For me growing indoors it was key to have plants that I could grow indoors and I love the more up beat high rather than stoned to the couch kind of effect. That’s the sole reason I became interested in C99 in the first place. Such a nice high for that time and frame.

[Upstate]

@StocktonT

The phenotype I would go for was low yielding

Isn’t that always the case, lol! Same here. Nice pictures. The plants look very happy. Do you still have your c99? I have an extra pack if you’re interested in making a few seeds to give back to me…

[StocktonT]

Yea it usually is the case, lower yield or longer flowering times and lower yield hehe but like I wrote above you can trick her into giving more with worm castings and with bigger pots and more space. That is a very generous offering. I am in the tropics now so I can’t grow indoors like I used to back home. Hopefully I can get back home soon and grow indoors again. Would love to grow some C99. Still have a pack of Pineapple Princess and some Apollo 11 x Apollo 13 back home somewhere if they will still germinate. I’ll get back to you after this virus thing about the seeds. If I have the space and opportunity I would love to but for now I can’t accept it as I can’t tell you when that would be. Very kind offer though, I really appreciate it my friend!

[GMan]

Man, I’m loving this discussion on the Cindy. I’m going to put a couple of these into germ today.

I noticed that the Ciskei strain at TSC says it’s a 65-75 day finish. Isn’t that the one you say is a 50 day finish? I was sure curious because who wouldn’t want a 50 day flower in their crib.

Did I miss something?

I’m all about getting this C99 going. Man, I need a strain with the upbeat high like you say. I hope it’s even close to any of the traits you mentioned; tropical flavors, pineapple, the high…

I was actually gifted a few JH beans recently. I never had it yet, either. Don’t know a thing about its origin yet.

[Upstate]

I’m positive ciskei was listed as 50 days. It’s been in my wishlist journal for years, and it’s written down as 50 =60. It was called the fastest pure sativa on Earth. I hope they didn’t lose it and outcross it with something else and not say anything. Believe me, I have been looking at that for years and years and years living in Upstate New York. Always dreaming about it, but until recently too afraid to order any seeds online. I’ve had that flowering time memorized for years… of course tastes have changed, and people pick later now than they used to. Many waiting for amber resin. I’ll have to see if the description is different on other seed sellers sites.

[Upstate]

They will always be avaiable. If i grow a pack I’ll make beans… but since you have had the original version, it would be nice to get your input on it, and the best input can be had by you growing them. Hope you can get to them soon. How are the Apollo lines? And that Pineapple Princess? What is that one?

[StocktonT]

@GMan @Upstate

I have paid attention to Cinderella 99 for a long time and I have grown some of the versions out since my friend showed med those first ones in 1999. I have not grown all versions out though and I am sure there are a few that are good that I missed. Where did your C99 seeds come from? It’s always subjective when talking about the effects of cannabis but to me C99 and the Apollo types were always up, energetic, inspiring and fun which was at the other end of the spectrum form something like black afghani hash which to me is pretty heavy though it’s very good. The upside with C99 is the quickness, flavor and the indoor adaptability where she is easy to grow indoors. NL5 x Haze which I also loved is much harder to grow, especially in a small space with low light. Even something like the old Super Silver Haze was quite big in frame where the C99 could be kept pretty easy indoors but also the smaller you keep her the lower the yield will be. Also it depends what version you’re growing, some are more mellow like I found Mosca’s BX-1 C99 to be though it was good it wasn’t as good as the best C99 in my opinion.

Pineapple Princess was a cross of C88 and C99 made by a Michigan seed maker called Tricloud. Don’t think they can be bought anymore which is sad. He had a few lines with old Grimm stuff and I grew his Trifecta, two of the females are pictured above, those were his Pineapple Princess crossed to Eclipse which was his mix of Apollo 11 and Apollo 13 so kind of all the corners of the Genius and Princess family.

[StocktonT]

People always talk about how uniform the original C99 release was but I never thought so. I found a few different types, though they all had enough similarities to belong to the same “line” of seeds there were a sliding scale from the very thin stemmed, slender leafed and lesser yielding ones and those were, in my experience mostly the ones with the “zig-zag” stems profile and also the ones that couldn’t hold their flower up at the end of flowering. This would be my favorite side of the line where the other side, again in my opinion, had stronger stems, bigger flowers and often a more skunky and musky kind of fermented fruity flavor/smell. This is a generalization and I have seen both the thin stemmed type with less flavor and smell and I have had the stronger stemmed type with really nice tropical fruit and candy type of smell/flavor.

The thing is selection and it would depend on who made the seeds and what they selected for. Mosca did a really good job in my book concerning flavor but he also seemed to land more in the middle when it came to the effect. None of the females I grew from the BX-1 C99 (Mosca) needed support where my favorite phenotype needs sticks and strings to stand up at the end of flowering. The original was bought by a childhood friend of mine and he grew out multiple females and that floppy female type was one of them but the original also had the ones that you didn’t need to stake too much. The original was more uniform in flavor than many of the later versions though. Most all of them had that Cindy type of flavor and smell which wasn’t really skunky but it was pungent like rotten fruits fermented and with a very sweet flavor. They were more uniform in effects that some of the other versions though not all of them were super racy. Mosca mixed two different lines of C99 according to lore where one side came from a clone and one from seeds I think.

One of the more varied versions I saw came from FET and Spice Brothers which another friend bought in 2003/04. it had that phenotype I look for but also a bit of other things. One was a bit purple and pretty big for a C99 girl. The one I and some of my friends kept growing from clone was that typical floppy stemmed and super fast, fruity and nasty kind of aroma with a very nice flavor. Also pretty pungent. He seemed to have more expressions in his selection that Mosca where all plants I saw were that kind of stronger stemmed ones and I could almost see the Shiva Skunk side in them. Joey’s version was pretty good back in the middle of the 2000s but I liked his C99 x A11 and C99 x AK47 better for some reason. Old Timers version was all (only grew three plants though) the floppy one but with a bit lower odor though one of the females (had two females and one male) were more like Apollo 11 in the effect and flavor which was nice. She was also very fast. I cut her clones down at the 50 day mark where I let most of my other female C99 go between 56 and 70 days. 70 is a bit of over done but they also yielded a bit more but had a bit more mellow aspects to the high taken later.

Jack Herer changed in the 90s. I don’t know why but if one believe Nevil he said he made the first batch of seeds and it was (NL5 x Haze C) x (Skunk#1 x Haze C) which is the same pedigree as Super Silver Haze but a different selection where only the female clone (his C5#1) was the same. I also read that he did later selections on both the Skunk#1 and the Skunk#1 x Haze C lines which would make Jack and Super different breeds from the same family. I don’t know what they did after he left Sensi but the Jack of the mid 90s was pretty damn good. There were variation in that line too and not all were that type that got selected and sold in flower form from clone. A rule of thumb was usually that the longer flowering ones were the better effects much like Super Silver Haze where there are some quicker, 9-10 week plants but there’s also a few that will go 14-15 that are really good. I liked the haze lemon incense kind more than the lemon soda fizzy kind.

[GMan]

Thanks. All good info for me. I have to find out the origin of the JH seeds I have. I also need to check with the guy who made the C99 fems. He seems to be a pretty good grower with more knowledge than me so maybe he selected good for it.

You got me salivating though, lol… I’m going to drop those C99 as soon as I finish putting on my shoes.

Well, it’s 12 hours later and I forgot to send this reply this morning. lol. and I didn’t get the seeds down either. Tomorrow for sure. I did get 6 plants up potted.