Thanks! It really depends on how I’m feeling and how busy I am. I don’t care at all about yield as this is all for personal consumption in an efficient vaporizer. I only consume once at night really so for me seeing variety is the most interesting aspect. If something appears special in some way it is easy to reveg 1GAL pots as well and they take up very little space. Also1 GAL pots are mobile for pollinating outside of a flowering area. My setup is disorganized, inefficient and something I don’t think anyone would ever want to emulate though.
Here’s the usual process. This round almost everything was done late or neglected because I was very busy.
Seeds started in paper towel, usually sprout within 16-24 hours.
Placed in rapid rooters if valuable seeds. Straight to my soil-less mix if self created seeds.
Before seedlings look sickly transplant to approximately 3" square nursery pots or smaller.
Transplant into 7"x7"x9" 1 GAL pots once fully rooted out.
Lower branches pruned off for spacial reasons as well as to ensure 1GAL is sufficient (neglected this step as I was too busy)
After a few days flip. Continue to prune any branches that will expand outside of the pot space. Males are culled once they show and soil-less mix dumped back in a container for future use without need for re-amending.
These were flipped close to 1ft if I remember correctly without sufficiently pruning them and I actually threw out the SSDD F2s because they got over 4.5’ tall post stretch. They were very healthy and smelled extremely good but I know with that kind of size they probably would have been first to deteriorate.
Clones perform much more predictable and solid in a 1GAL in my experience. To me there are 2 other options, and they just aren’t worth it when you compare pros and cons of both methods. An incredible amount of space used and reduced variety is the result no matter what it seems.
Veg out a seed until it shows sex. Take clones, wait for clone to root, transplant and flower out.
Veg out a seed until it shows sex. Transplant to a 3-7GAL pot. Could end up with a huge plant of something I don’t like or that is unstable.
Thanks a lot for the step by step approach! Seems like you are likely flipping to flower then within 3 weeks from sprout at the latest? Will have to give it a go one of these days just to switch things up.
Yeah that’s probably pretty close, to me it’s just whenever they are ready. Some genetics are more vigorous than others and some would outperform others in a true 12/12 from seed. In my experience the plant won’t flower until it’s ready to show pre-flowers anyways. I have done actual 12/12 from seed a bit too and the results for me are more inconsistent, especially with certain “indica” genetics. I need to play around with that more, but will only do that with my own creations due to the abundance of seeds. You could always just throw a 1 GAL or 2 in the corner of your tent even and see how it does without going for a uniform setup.
this is something that i put on my journal, but that may have a space here too if thats ok.
Nitrogen levels and a possible cause for hermies in prone strains (like goji).
background:
I know i tend to feed high in N (20-10-20 thru out, although some get monopotassium phosphate in flower and lower N). some plants like it, some others dont, so far most of my plants did really well, and one or two would show toxicity traits and i would go light on them (and increase PK with MKP).
I suspect the gojis clearly HATED the ratio. One clawed like hell (although it didnt herm) and the others threw bannanas really bad.
So i went out there and searched for the correlation and sure enough I found multiple studies indicating how the presence of N contributes directly to the ethylene production and how lower levels of N help boost ethylene (so thus, N toxicity would decrease ethylene)
for those who are not completely sure, ethylene is the hormone that induces female flower.
Nitrogen deficiency may play a positive role in ethylene biosynthesis and signaling as in silico analysis reveals the slight down-regulation of CTR1 and up-regulation of EIN3 under conditions of N starvation and low/high N levels. Zheng et al. (2013) have similarly found that low-level nitrate treatment induces rapid bursts of ethylene production and regulates the expression of the ethylene signaling components CTR1 , EIN3 and EIL1 , and NRT2 .1 in wild-type plants.
I dont want to be one of those people who draw general conclusions from one correlation they find.
I know there are other factors that could have caused it, or just genetic predisposition with little outside factors.
just throwing that piece of research into the mix. i found interesting that low levels of N increase ethylene production.
Of course it’s cool to post it and appreciated. I’d just add in-case you missed it earlier that a few of my Goji F2s clawed very hard in early flower as well. I culled them when I saw it so no clue whether or not they were stable. The ones that didn’t claw seemed stable. I think I read someone else say theirs was clawing recently too (might have been you?).
So you’re wondering if the N toxicity in the plants clawing is inhibiting ethylene production, allowing male flowers to develop “easier”? Or is it the opposite of that? I don’t have enough knowledge when it comes to plant chemistry to contribute anything intelligent, but it’s interesting to read regardless!
so funny enough, the one that clawed didnt hermie as bad. but i mentioned the clawing as evidence of the extra sensitivity to Nitrogen in flower of the gojis (yeah i have seen clawing reports in various posts)
the article says that lower N tends to produce more ethylene, and I leap to the conclusion that higher N (or N toxicity) would therefore inhibit or produce less ethylene and trigger hermie in those that are prone or extra sensitive.
its a leap. but it might make sense at least in my case. (then again it could also be sensitive to the amount of light i put it under etc etc etc. just a sensitive plant not just N).
None of my Gojis have ever clawed, but a couple of Larry Lotuses and one or two of the Uplifts did, as well. And I’m definitely not adding any kind of 20-10-20 anything to my water/soil haha. Might just be a Snow Lotus trait. Or maybe an OG trait, actually, considering the Larry Lotus is, uh, a Larry OG cross and the Uplift is a Hell’s OG cross.
I don’t ever get too worried about clawing, though. I know a lot of people get weirded out by it, but it’s never seemed to indicate any sort of adverse anything on any of my plants that have done it. They definitely didn’t herm.
I saw claw in a couple gojis too - they also stayed very dark green. I think its relating to blueberry in blockhead/snowlotus as its a very common Blueberry trait.
I ran a pack of goji og f3s that all hermed and I run maxibloom from start to finish. 5-15-14 so not high N. No clawing, looked perfect. Still hermed. I don’t think Nitrogen is the cause on this line…
Hey, that sucks to hear about the nanners @the_bot , but please feel free to put a post about this, in my Goji thread. I’m a fan of people having as much info as possible about these beans we pass around.
Similarly for me the Goji F2s from 2017 that hermed a ton looked otherwise perfect. Didn’t see any clawing in that specific combination of F2s.
Very interesting! When thinking about @the_bot 's post while walking my dogs last night I was thinking about how N sensitive DJ’s BB line was and how it would claw over mild organic N sources even. Didn’t make the connection that there actually is some BB in the Snow Lotus, thanks for pointing that out! That said while I saw a whole lot of clawing working with DJ’s stuff over the years I never really saw much in the way of nanners.
Think that’s likely it and seems the simplest explanation. As I understand it OG crosses come with a high probability of intersex issues. Whether or not the trigger is N related I couldn’t say, but anything that sensitive isn’t worth it to me.
This is my bet… I expect to at least see some nanners when growing anything OG related.
I was actually surprised to see that the Triangle Kush cut is actually stable. Only seen 1 single nanner in 68 days and that came in around week 5. I literally scope every single bud every few days on things I’d suspect. Not seen anything before or since. All while the three headbanger F3’s(Sour D x (Hell’s Angel OG x SFV OG)) hermed out right next to her with balls on the stem at 3 weeks… Same feed/table/lights/tent everything as the TK and my SSDD F2 that has also never even thrown a nanner in the 8+ grows of her I’ve done.
The way I see herms is as more sensitive than non-herm prone plants. Every plant is somewhere on the spectrum but some lines carry this sensitivity in greater or lesser degrees and frequency. Temps, at both ends of the extremes, root nutrient uptake ability, plant maturity (this is a big one I think a lot of people miss when forcing plants to flower before they reach maturity), and light schedule and intensity fluctuations. These are the main environmental culprits that I see triggering herms. Stack multiple stressors and the potential for herms increases.
In my experience the Gojis are a sensitive lot. I had 4 of 10 show herm. The first few were early onset flowering males that eventually put out pistils also. I believe my cold temps and early push to flower may have been what triggered those. We’re talking regular temps down in the low 50’s at night, w occasional dips down close to freezing. One of those two I kept a clone of and it flowered out fine with no herms for my sensi run as a girl (maybe indicating it was pushed to flower too soon?)
All herms were caught early enough and removed, that I don’t believe they could have dropped pollens on the run, but one cannot be certain. The last one occurred on one of the girls mid to late flower after a temp dip down to low 40’s a few nights in a row.
Based on what I saw in others grows at the same time, he goji did not seem to like heavy nutrients. I run soil though and didn’t run into nutrient issues. I’d say mine coasted on little to no extra inputs, just reused soil, mildly ammended.
Also, three males that did not show herm were used for pollinations. Males were all subjected to more stressors (some intentional, some incidental) than the girls
This pheno has crispy necrotic leaves, otherwise I like the flower the best on it at the moment. Looks closer to the blue steel flowers that I saw in @nube 's K4 x OMG report when compared to the other 2.
Where did the F2s you sent to me come from? I’ve got some soaking as we speak. I think my environment is pretty solid since I moved indoors but I don’t like to gamble as I can grow so few at a time.
I’ve never sent anyone any 2017 Goji F2s (The confirmed unstable ones). There were only 50-100 of them and I knew from earlier tests that they were quite unstable. You and everyone else got the Goji (2021) F2s from this thread (if they were from me) and the same ones that @Greasy is testing at the moment!
Oh that’s right. The pack was dated. I’m too stoned and didn’t read it right. Scared the shit out of me for just a lil minute! I should have known you wouldn’t send those out. Once again…forgive me for I’m old and way high!
Haha don’t worry about it, it provides a good opportunity to clarify with all the Goji herm talk lately as well. So to be clear also - @the_bot is not running these 2021 Goji F2s either. In my opinion all Goji F2 data is valuable even if the parental selection is different, definitely appreciate him posting his experiences here too. Just wanted to clarify because it can be confusing at times.
I still don’t feel like we’re exactly in the clear here with the 2021 F2s that I made either. As far as I’m aware so far only @bytheKasiz and myself have tested them to harvest, which isn’t a large enough sample size by any means… My one pheno that threw (1) banana I’m attributing to a whole host of extreme stresses including a multi-day power outage.
Here’s a picture + zoom in of the one and only banana found in the 2021 F2s.
