Looks like here in Canada at least the ‘legal providers’, (aka government protected cartels), can use the law to protect their stolen genetics.
Taking their stolen genetics, adding some genetic markers then claiming the strains as their own.
Just another reason I’ve never yet spent a dime on ‘legal’ Canadian bud.
Thats cool! Stand in for your Money. Like musicans, the best Breeders rarely do that!
I wonder how they will enforce that, im sure most of their stuff comes from other people’s work, an those other people have the plants to make the original versions. For example dont they have super lemon haze ? Mind you alot of those big companies have now got many of the seedmakers on their pay rolls.
They probably have created some unique strains crossing existing genetics and adding bio-markers and now claim them as unique cultivars.
They’re not going to be going after your Joe Average personal grower but like Monsanto does with their GMO seed lines go after anyone using their genetics for profit.
I have no idea how many of them hired established pot breeders but I’m sure they have some in their employ.
The real question is how many of those bio markers are already present in some of the more popular strains that are making there way into a large majority of the gene pool. That is just one of many Monsanto like tactics like terminator genes that show up generations later rendering a line sterile. Then there is the pollen they invented to intentionally contaminate neighboring seed crops with patented genetics. Big agriculture gets real unfriendly real fast. I would not be surprised if they released the hemp viruses that are abundant just so they could release patented virus proof varieties that the commercial market will depend on. It’s already happening , dark heart nursery has been working on it and is almost there.
exactly. Now you people can understand a bit my Side of story.
If we allow even the slightest “changes” to be patented, like say a couple generations of Selection, then the community cant make prophit from this anymore. Thai Columbians getting restricted from use that way. thats a no go.
Thats WHY i rather lean thowards not allowing people to claim things their own easily.
Cause they can still sell it without patent, they will just have more concurrency stealing their work by open pollination and reselling… EG. Less prophit.
But imagine it other way around, and vermountman can now patent his 20 generations of selection, or certain outcrosses, and nobody else can sell it anymore… (i mean that Landrace would be locked away from public that way probably, all in vermountmans hand)
In music this problem is showing aswell. People sometimes get sued for re-using a small fragment of a melody, and there are Cases where the artist insisted he dint hear the “original” song, and unknowingly used the same fragment of melody.
same problem. Musicans get sued for using same, or even just similar melodies. Court claims they copyed it knowingly… but they probably didnt. And there isnt unlimited amount of melodies that Humans enjoy.
Lets make an example: one guy selects a Landrace 20 generations, its now stabilized for the trippy effect… But sadly its inbreeding depressed, the trippiest pheno of the selection is not as trippy as the trippiest of the raw landraces, thats often the case in selective breeding.
An other guy, takes the initial Landrace, and selects one Generation with ultra high numbers of plants. THAT is what i personally want. Or he just open pollinates 2000 Palants , no selection. So you guys would probably tell me he just did one Generation, bad guy. But tastes are different, and i would call his work more important. A guy like coloradosativa spreads undepressed, and trippyer stock than vermountman PROBABLY.
I get it that the work of coloradosativa could be considered “less effort”. But now what? So, nobod should sell unselected Landrace? Everyone can only share it for free? So, all the expenses that even a open pollination costs, cant be rewarde? cause the peoples who buy landraces are very few. the reward will anyway be lower than by selling OG Kush.
I would be happy to kindly ask a guy like Coloradosativa if he used many plants, if he really cared alot. And how hard it was for him personally to make a seedrun. Estimate a bit if he has passion. Thats my standingpoint. This type of guy hunts probably since years, and simply offers us also his Huntingtrophys. That often gets forgotten… The amount of time to even get a good Line thats not out there…
And i think this has also to be rewarded. Landrace owners often prohibit it to be sold, that is what i respect and would never break, dont get me wrong. But as i understand it there was no restriction …
I would rather support this type of thing . From the preservation perspective this guy may be more important. Same with snowhigh. Snowhigh relases dozens of LAndraces, some less favored like say:Thais. Nobody wants Thai only a select few… And this BAD snowhihg offers it.
Sorry for all this writing…
Could you go back and tell me where anyone said the Colorado Sativa was a bad guy I missed that. I just said I respected Vermontmans work for 40 years preserving and selecting that Oaxacan and I would rather support VM. Also that I had a personal relationship with him because he donated many many seeds to a charity seed auction for The Canadian Mental Health Association I was doing.
Geeze…
Who said anything about VM patenting Oaxacan… 
It’s very hard to patent that which can be shown to have existed in the public domain prior to the patent request. This is why it is good to document the existence of landrace, wild and heirloom varieties that have been around and worked with by many far before any of the current shenanigans started to take place.
i dont know if you said that, but i think thats the direction your thoughts went.
you didnt say it, true.
These are some of the reasons I wasn’t all for legalization the way is is unfolding. Almost everywhere consideration is given to those with the most money who have basically lobbied our politicians to make laws that work best for them.
Even with the micro-grows allowed in Canada now you’re still looking at a million dollars or so to have a decent chance of finding your products on store shelves.
Cannabis is still a controlled substance and it shouldn’t be. You can go to health food stores and buy lots of different herbs that can have serious side effects including death and they aren’t controlled at all.
I’m looking around for some opium poppy seeds to grow this summer then extract the resins out of the whole plants for some nice opium like the stuff we used to get in Vancouver. Smoked some of that in an old fashioned opium den when I was about 16 but that was 50 years ago so where do I get it now? Some east indian guys turned me on to some opium laced black hash around the same time and it was amazing.
Like all the anti-vaxxers say, ‘The gov’t has no right to tell me what I can put in my body ot tell me what I have to put in my body’. I think they’re wrong not to get the Covid vaccine but I also think they have the right to refuse it too. I’ve never had the flu vaccine but figured Covid was a bigger risk and with my COPD and age getting covid unvaccinated would probably have serious repercussions for me.
There have been new laws made in the last few years to protect the various plant cultivars coming out due to new tech dealing with genetic manipulation and not just pot.
There’s basically 2 rules in business.
Sux but that’s the way it’s been for ages.
There’s actually a site for regular pot breeders to establish ownership of their cultivars. I should have it bookmarked and will see if I can find it.
All it takes is a couple hours with a Crispr unit to tweak a few genes then claim it as your own tho when you got the gold.
Really you know what I’m thinking? Am I thinking that f2 seeds of hybrid made of two inbred lines ( say nepali and oaxacan) wont necessarily be very similar to the f1’s?
I’m also thinking I’m getting grumpy and should go to bed.
as far as im concerned it happens, and landraces get patented even. i saw a doku from my Dokuchannel of trust.
And what if youre just the first to cross say Bluedream x Runts x Duckweb x Thai… What if youre first, the problem is that there arent endless combinations possible, so now the rest of the world is prohibited to sell it, if they accidentally made the same combination.
In music it works like this: if you accidentally made the same melody, you can use it, but if you HEARD the patented original melody and knowingly re-used it you are guilty. This shows how desperate it is to find a law for Music Copyright. Your prior knowledge matters, this leaves alot room for wrong Judgement. Alot room for big guys to win a lawsuit.
And breeding? same?
The problem is really that music and breeding is kind of Limited in how unique it often is… (no in truth there are few individuals like hendrix that reach special melodies, but what about the newcomers. do they all need to get sued cause theyre not unique enough?)
Yep plant patents are very real and there is already international standards have been in place for a long time. It will suck to see it applied to the cannabis plants we all love but normal farmers have been crying about this for generations. It’s exactly as you says, if your the first to make or the first to document you cross or your genetically altered variety it will be yours and the pathways exist to in force that. Ultimately protecting landraces and known heirloom lines is the only hope of keeping any workable genetics in the public’s hands. The good thing is we know what to expect and what needs to be done, by the time the farmers of the old days realized what was happening to there seed market it was already to late to go back and keep what was lost. This is what kicked my seed collecting into high gear many years ago when the medical scene first started and clones became the way of most growers.
but how do you do that? do you need to make a genetical analysis, from wich Labor? wich document counts in court…?
And you hope that monsanto wasnt first.
So the differene is, when you let analyse “it” , and i call it “it” on purpose and mention its Landrace and public domain, then its save?
wich labor should i use?
Atleast that way we can save Landraces, my first prioity.
I’m not the best at understanding all the different laws and how they work exactly but there are groups of people working on and discussing these issues , the open cannabis project or future cannabis project is one group that is or was working on getting as many varieties as they could entered into the public domain and has a lot of information available regarding the subject.
This is also related to the subject
superb post @Heritagefarms