I agree. Great post. Too bad its so expensive to do what he did with Jamaican Lion. I’d love to do something similar.
This is a tough one and a topic the Freaker’s have been discussing. Is selling raw landrace stock unethical? I think it is not, but envision raw landraces offered as freebies and worked landraces for sale. There is as much or even more effort involved in stabilizing or inbreeding landraces as there is working with hybrids. I think that until people can buy a pack of landrace seeds and expect to find a keeper they will buy something considered stronger. For this reason I encourage at least a couple or 3 rounds of selections before selling for profit. But what about raw landrace seeds? Although i wouldn’t personally sell them, that’s the only way we are going to get them introduced to Growers outside the tight-knit groups that currently grow them. Unless somebody wants to have a website where they just give away landrace seeds. I don’t see that happening. The fact is it requires time, effort, and money to reproduce any strain.
And then there is the question of value. If something is free, many people will place little value on it. Perhaps the answer is a modest price charged for landrace seeds. This will eventually happen. As more and more people begin working with land races, and then selling their worked version, the Raw landraces will have less and less value( to most people)until eventually they are free.
I guess the only people that have a right to bitch are the ones giving them away for free😁
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Here is one more Authenic Genetics.com have a few other need to find the links also High Grade Seeds.com offer 5 landrance with two being fems (Nepal Purple and Black Afghan)(great hash strains) Also Holy Smoke Seeds.com
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well. to generate a minimally selected , but NOT bottlenecked ulrahighnumbered Landrace Selection is the biggest challange of them all. Everyone thinks they can just use a couple dozen Plants as future generation. See where im going? A single person doing atleast 10 Plants minimal selection, will contribute MORE to the further living of a Landrace then someone bottlenecking it to a point in time where it still shines, but a couple gens later will fall under category “inbreeding depressed” . Less generations selection is more .
Thats why i find it hard to accept that people like coloradosativa are looked down to.
Like said the intention is what makes the difference between good and bad Guy. If coloradosativas IS the guy who wants just that: to preserve landraces, then he MIGHT not have the money to do a 2000 plants to beginn with. By not allowing him anything, he will never be able to afford such a thing. Thats my thinking path. In general we should not look down to open pollinating or minimal selecting Peoples, who ask a couple bucks for the seeds. he does a greater job in preserving a line PROBABLY.
Even if he offers a Line thats still being sold, that bad looking down-vibe will kill probably landraces. and not Vermountfarms nor Coloradosativa would theoretically have right to make a buck, but… you know, your killing landraces that way bwith that vibe. Not that i complain about YOU guys, but thats the tendency …
Who is gonna do a 2000 plant minimal Selection? Vermountman? shure?
Coloradosativa does atleast something and preserves atleast a fraction. and a 3-Generations selected variety does a 3 times worse Job for preservation PROBABLY…
Yes theyre still shining a bit , the diamonds… but vermountmans line will glow out in your hands after couple generations later.
I repeat: AND NOW WHAT?
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Coloradosativas is doing the Lord’s work! I’ve traded with him for years and support him as much as I can.I’m actually currently running his cross of Ace’s Panama x Ace’s Malawi he then crossed to Snowhigh’s Angola Red OG. 
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exactly. Thats why i would sell them. How many peoples still hold sold Lines, like OHaze, Punto Rojo Cannabiogen, Realseedcompany, Oldtimershaze and so forth. Its an easy carefree method for someone to share his stuff. without risking to feel like his Heart ripped out after he discovers that 99 percent of people dont do shit with the seeds besides pollenchucking.
I as a longtime hunter for genes would love to sell my Lines , after im deathtired of the hunt im telling you… I as a longtime hunter am tired of talking to even a single person, only to find out that most dont really care thaaat much about landrace preservation… I just would wannt a quick fix. Imho its a stone in the way you are promoting. The people who want selected landrace can still choose which is better. hell selected Strains will always be promoted like “the only way to roll”. it wont be easy to miss the loud screams . haha
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You nailed it. You can’t start trading for the really cool stuff until you spend time buying seeds to trade.
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So Im curious… you think only 2000 plant open pollinations are the only thing that brings value to the community? Any other work is worthless or worse, causes harm to the community? Maybe I misunderstood you but that seems to be what you are implying.
IMO the guy who has been preserving a line (whether you think its bottlenecked or not and before cannabis landraces were really recognized as important) for 40 years deserves a little credit. Its easy to look back now with the knowledge we have about genetics and cannabis and think you would have done it differently, but VM was out there growing his guerrilla grows in an illegal world without the internet to share ideas. Without guys like VM, Snowhigh and those unnamed who actually preserved these strains, Colorado Sativa wouldn’t be able to do the work he is doing. I am of the opinion there is more than enough revitalization in interest and preservation runs happening now in 2022, people “pollenchucking” (kind of a nasty elitist term IMO) isnt going to hurt the global cannabis gene pool. I cant even count how many preservation projects are happening now Mr Steve Rabbit in Thailand, The afghan selection team, just so many I cant keep track of anymore. 5 years ago there weren’t nearly as many. The world has woken up to landrace value or at least sees the dollar signs value in preservation.
I said Colorado Sativas Purple Satellie “wasn’t my cup of tea”… maybe that was inflammatory I don’t know. Anyways Im going to take a break from this thread for a bit. And for the last time I don’t have a problem with Colorado Sativa and I don’t think anyone here does! 
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Yeah, you’ve got me confused with The Landrace Team 
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here are a few more Khalifa Genetics.com and Swamie’s Not to forget Dr. GreenThumb.com for their Panama Red strain + a few other orginal strains
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I hope I haven’t given the impression that I have a problem with anyone that sells landraces. I think some of them are way overpriced but I don’t think that’s going to last.
@romanoweed I think it would be nice if the people selling worked landraces offered the original unworked version as a freebie( if possible.) I’ll may do this sometime down the line.
As far as the 2000 plant count goes I have some ideas about how we can move towards that number. I envision many preservation groups working together on the same landrace at the same time. Massive pollen swaps… pollen from 500+ male plants being mailed to the same guy/gal… it’s certainly a possibility with enough interested people and I’m seeing more and more of them everyday. Even the high prices charged by some people have their value. Someone sees landrace seeds for sale for $500 for 10, and they decide to do a seed run and will sell them for $300 , and their competition for $150 and so on Down the Line until we have many different ones to choose from, all reasonably priced.
I encourage everyone to grow as many plants as you can when doing open pollinations. Have faith that as a group we will get together and find the means to preserve these wonderful gifts properly. In the meantime preserve what you can. Something is better than nothing. How many zoos have two thousand pandas? Or 2,000 Rhinos? All modern Humans descend from 8 individuals, yet look what time and distance have done since then. I truly believe that even if only a 10 pack of seeds were produced from a freezer and brought back to their home climate and allowed to open pollinate there would soon be plenty of diversity.
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Who is preserving Landraces propperly? who?
In this Podcast about old Landraces you can hear that not even the State preserves Landraces. The state preserves Pressureresistant and highyealding improoved Tomatoes. (thats what they mention in this Podcast).
And its all left to private Companys like per Example Gartersleeben Seebank to preserve the Landraces.
So, its our Job us to preserve Landraces, and whoever does it, shall do it without automatically assuming inbreeding depression is quiet ok to deal with imho
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I began thinking of this soon after joining OG.
The Goji OG preservation is a great example of what a community of cultivators with a shared goal and ethos can achieve.
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yes i want this to happen too.
reason: inbreeding depressio.
I walked trough fields of Marihuana in Year 2000. Ive seen that around every 200st Plant looked outstanding. Totally covered in Ice like no other.
(yes twohundret).
And if biologists tell me that ultrahigh numbers matter, then i atleast listen.
One of the founders of this spanish collective (forgot name) IS biologist.
He discovered later in his Carrer that inbreeding depression infact happend and started a Project with 2000 Plants to preserve one single Jamaican Strain.
So, is he just mistacken? It took him energy bigtime to pull it off,
Who knows.
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regarding you humanity was once just 8 People. well, i never said inbreeding depression means death. Imbreeding d. means thousand mutations , low heath, low potency… problems… if now humans recovered after 1000s of years is no compleete counterargument. it means still 1000s of years of suffering.
Its actually intereting to think about how this was possible. I think humans slowly became more… and somehow recovered. but over the course of tiny population probably were unhealthy and endabgered
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Here to second hawkman on Khalifa, outstanding customer service and an understanding of the need for preservation.
Apparently there are a few vendors that are offering his stuff in Canada/US as well. (IE Khalifa Genetics | The Seed Cellar & Khalifa Genetics - Dagga Garden )
Big fan of the work LRT is doing but their prices are crazy.
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thanks for the information - looked at Dagga Garden - interesting
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Cannabis is a natural outcrosser. That’s what keeps it healthy. Even humans have mixied with other human species. You can do huge 2000 plant pollenetions indoors over an over again an eventually some plants may have issues. Besides what are people trying to preserve. 2000 plants arnt the best, only one can be the best if your target it peak trippyness an potency. In the past the old thais of lore were selectivly bred by master breeders they wernt just a result of huge open polinations. An then all the bud packed together. There is no chance of finding the tripiest bud like that. All youll find is a huge mix of all sorts if thats your goal.
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love that.
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