Phylos’s hypocrisy is staggering
I will undoubtedly avoid any product from them or anyone doing business with them.
Any botanist can breed a stable cultivar with as little as 25 plants at a time and weve been doing it since the paleolithic era. They can keep their crispr genomics, our plants and our seeds will live on in closets and guerrilla grows forever.
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yea bro i forgot i posted that. i have several posts rallying against phylos and the open cannanbis project since i wrote that. i am never here tho i keep meaning to get mre involved on overgrow however i usually am on RiU erry day. i would like to add a few things i have learned and posted many places since i wrote that post. actually let me just tell you guys one story instead. the open cannabis project posted on insta shortly after i wrote the post in question in which they announced the bringing onboard of an attorney to handle their public domain goals, they are suggesting ppl use phylos as the databas. now here is the real problem. this attoorney they hire is literally a patent attorney, his main clientel according to his website and personal blog are breeders seeking IP rights based of genetic sequencing aka patent of a strain. this is what he blogs about and what he gets paid to do. he has even advertised that he has already won several of these strain patents for ppl. this is clearly in direct conflict with the open cannabis mission statement. after researching this guy i reached out to open cannabis project and him personally. we had a cpl convos in email and DM as well on the open cannabis insta page before we went private with the convo. to sum up what happened is i questioned hi on this discovery and concern directly in a nice way askinghim to clear up what i am missing giving them the benefit of the doubt. in the end however he couldnt quell my concerns about his conflict of interests regarding his clients and open cannabis projects mission. in my convo with theopen canabis project they said they arr aware of the situation and that i made bigger waves than i may realize and there are others concerned as well and they will be taking it very seriously. i dont think anything happened however and i think they still retain this attorneys services. btw i am sorry i forget his name but it is on the insta for open cannabis project cpl moonths back if you guys wanna read his blog and see his website. this ties in with phylos because this is what they are using for public domain in their cases. fast forward a bit, i just heard, not sure if true, that phylos is starting a seed company and as you said my guess is by creating plants form the sample material then making seeds. this is the biggest crime against humanity if so. regardless it is still a huge problem as i see ppl like kevin jodrey and nate etc touting open cannabis project just this week on a panel at an expo. so heavy hitters whom i normally respect are driving more and more ppl to open cannabis project as if they are our savior. i am greatly concerned and feel deep regret for even posting my recommendation on here to public domain your stuff. i have completley changed my stance on this foor the time being until these confilcts are resolved and theylikely never will be so…
i also want to point out what the lawyer said in a nutshell to me in email. basically he said it would be financially and probably impossble to reverse the precedent of patenting genetic sequencing of starins which was my question to him, why arent you doing exactly that. i see his point that the burpees, phylos and monsantos of the world have a war chest we cannot compete with, however his only other answer was “trust me we have big plans” well sorry but i dont trust lawyrs and especially ones that seemingly talk out both sides of their mouth for profit and take cases both patenting strains and open sourcing them. i believe it is posisble he has the open cannabis project duped or it is possible a bigger scam is in play here involving phylos, open cannabis and this attorney. that isnt for me to decide but i do know this is not good because nobody is fighting the needed battle which despite the oppositions warchest is necessary and that is we need to prevent patenting of all plants and all natural compounds. there is also legal precedent for this and their lack of motivation to fight this based offf those cases tho older than new precedent is alarming. my guess is he doesnt want to do that because he would lose all his business as a patent lawyer for breeders. anyway this was stream of concious i hope it made sense and i hope ppl research this for themselves and share more info as i was so disgusted i stopped tracking the situation and jsut do my own thing now i found ppl on forums with like mindsets of sharing and i have faith this community and others like it will remain the true backbone and life saver for the genetic diversity of plants. peace yall and im sorry it took me so long
TL;DR
my guess is phylos, poss in cahoots with open canabis project and their rpatent attorney, is using the public domain as a means to give phylos the legal loophole to use the genetic material they collect to reproduce a strain and then breed it for seeds and sell them on their upcoming seedbank business. the seedbankis a rumor however i havnt confirmed this, but if it is true i think it is safe to say that what i just said is the reason. this is gross because they have taken the communties desire to preserve genetics for all into a profiteering means to sell authentic seeds of phyols databas strains.
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Sam thanks you for sending your genetics. He couldn’t sell his 100 kg of skunk stock he holds so dear. But never fear, their stolen genetic clones will be pest free
Phylos got caught with their hand in the cookie jar. They have hired a PR firm to handle the backlash. 95% of their ‘responses’ on IG to critics are some copy/ paste very carefully worded responses. It’s all a game of legal semantics at this point. Their newest post is mostly private accounts shilling for how Phylos is such a GREAT company. Yet not a single reputable breeder has went to bat for them (other the scatman Sam who obviously has skin in the game)
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did you see their last video on their yt channel revealing their plans to do what i just laid out and market their own strains to various industries? they disabled comments onthat video to so ppl cannot tell the truth… in this sense the seedbankk part was a little off, they are selling these genetics to big AG, textile and other industries direct not to medical and rec home growers i fear anyone who submitted to phlos has been stolen from, and now given the money they have the breeder cannot even compete with their own work agaisnt phylos regarding selling their creations. even if phylos makes crossses only they arrived at the material to do so via lies, and the worst kind of lies. lies that were deigned to take advantage of ppls giving nature and desire to do good. it makes me sick i cant even talk about it anymore
the thing is tho it is more than private companies heavy hitters like kevin jodrey rely on phylos testing and he literally said he pushes so many ppl to phylos he gets a price that his competiton cannot beat. even a guy i respect like that is in bed with this mess. he said this all on the future cannabis project yt channel in one of the 100 vids they posted this week. same with HSO preaching about open cannabis project on the same channel at same expo. this is a problem. i cannot believe kevin or nate and hso etc are morons ik they arent so this virus has spread too far to contain
i was kevins biggest fan but i cannot resolve the hipocrisy of saying things like he wont use gauno ebcause its unethical yet uses phylos more than anyone, he uses their sex testing and terp profile report services. regardless tho he is contributing more than anyone to their warchest. makes me sad
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I didn’t watch that SPECIFIC video, but I have seen this playing out on other forums and media. There are tons of issues ahead for rec/ mom n pop outfits. I just read somewhere a huge Big Agri company just bought out one of the leaders in the industry. The deal is contingent on federal legalization. Once federally legal, the company then and only then takes control of the assets. To me, that is a sign that Big Agri already KNOWS something. The amount of money flooding DC from lobbyists is astronomical, yet it appears OUTWARDLY nothing is happening. The state I live in passed mmj in ‘16 yet dragged their feet so long with regulations and other cockblocks that the ONLY mom and pops nursery wasn’t able to grow because EVERYTHING was a gray area. So after 2 years of having every dollar tied up in their new license and not being able to produce, the family was forced to sell. They sold the license to a big Canadian company for $40m. Sure they cashed out, but that just tells you what it costs to pay to play. What you are about to see is big pharma and big Agriculture tag teaming the little man dry. Hate to say it, but for the average citizen, legalization is a nightmare.
Back to Phylos. Yes, they fucked everybody every which way and laughed all the way to the bank
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yes this is the problem even with PACS that fight for legalization, they are funded by other interests more than by ppl like us. they call things legal wins that are in essence the groundwork for corruption, like in my state where a panel decides who gets a growers license, it’s limited to a cpl a year and the panel hand selects the winners not from an anon aplication but fully knowing the applicants names and more. why is this an issue? well for one if their friend submits an apllication these 10 ppl know which application is theirs. it is obviously open to pay offs as well. the other sisue is they require a 2million dollar escrow to apply, not get the license, to apply!!! ik its escrow but the point is they only want the wealthy constituants of the politicians who passed this medical bill to get in on the ground floor. it is shady af. fyi i can still go to jail for a gram in my pocket in that same state, idk howppl allow this to happen or even worse how ppl who support PACs like norml accept this as a win. they say shit like one step at a time, but as you can see by the system laid out in my example there is no later. these ppl are the largest most financially resourcful investment grps and they get a head start of years. so dont try and sell me one step at a time. the other issue is you can resell the license like a liquor license so what these rich fucks are doing is putting 2 million in escrow prolly paying off the commity then being selected and then they turn around and sell it to big AG or some rich start up for 10 million. fuck politics and capitalist scum is my stance…and no i am not a socialist or anythign. i have no political ideologyu. i do me and watch the world burn around me
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There’s somebody somewhere sayin’ “I toldya so…”
I, (and alot of other people) have spent more than 30 years fighting my Federal, State and Local government forces in their self-declared “war on drugs” and I continue to do so.
They’ve used massive financial rewards for information, undercover officers (who in nine out of ten cases, were worse than the “hardened criminals”), spectrum analyzing cameras mounted on planes and helicopters, satellite imagery, the Armed forces, tracking dogs, sniffer dogs, hidden cameras and listening devices, telephone taps, crooked lawyers, phony buyers and sellers, xrays, heat seeking cameras and the list goes on, and on, and on.
They’ve threatened us with death, incarceration, beatings, and huge monetary penalties.
They’ve staged illegal search and seizures, legalized home invasions, and gross invasions of privacy.
And some two bit lawyer in his airconditioned corner office and 5000 dollar brooks and dunne suit is going to stop me from doing what i enjoy doing? I think not. I invite them to try. They will not succeed.
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I’m not well versed in the phylos argument but it sounds like the fear is that they’re stealing peoples genetics, is that a correct assumption on my part?
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they announced they are starting their own inhouse breeding company after they spent years collecting ppls genetics based off the claim they were potecting them from big AG and Big pharma patenting genetics using public domain law basicallyas their modu operandi. they however turned this on us by using public domain as a loophole to work directly with the genetics ppl submitted to public domain with the belief it would protect them from this kinds thing in a sense. they say they didnt steal or take ownership of ppl stuff but they did lie and use the material it seems to replicate clones in a lab that they were not given direct permission to clone and then they are using these to make their own stuff for this new inhouse breeeding company that is to seel to the likes of dupont they basically took advantage of the kindest most genrous ppl for their own profiteering. dont get it twisted reading their statemtn. until they say verbatem “we havnt used anyones plant material to recreate their strains via lab cloning” then they are lyers. they dance around it, bu they wont outright say it. aka lawyr speak. fuck phylos, fuck open cannabis project and their pig attorney.
TL;DR
yes they have catologuged the genetics butmore to the point hey have the actual sampes ppl submitted and from those samples they can recreate that exact plant and now they staretd a seed and clone company tocreate their own stuff to seel to bi enterpirse textile companies liek dupont. ther eis allot f nuance to this but know they are the enemy
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Yeah imagine what it would cost to purchase or grow all the varieties you want samples from for a genetic tissue culture/genome project. They instead got people to pay them to give them tons of info that they are building into a rather valuable source of information. He is currently pitching investorssayunf that dominating the clone market has been a main goal all along. Even if he dosent use the strains submitted he will use all the info and money maid collecting it to be able to create strains tailored for the commercial market. geneticaly modified , faster growing, quicker finishing, stronger flavors , blah blah blah, Frankenstein weed is just around the corner. Makes me sad but somebody was bound to do it, it’s a personal choice now to support the gmo nugs or not. I’d say not personally.
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Are there people submitting clones?
From the video it would seem like using dry stems would mitigate all of the risk.
There’s also www.medicinalgenomics.com as an alternative
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I don’t want to be devils advocate, but after working in a legal recreational market, I’m not sure which is worse. Frakenweed that will not require aggressive IPM (using products that are only legal because they have not been fully tested), or buds that have been covered in mold and spray residue for most of their lives then burned off with UV right at the end.
It’ll only get bad if they start dropping clones that require proprietary IPM, or it’ll take out neighboring plants.
Grow your own
Smoke your own
Share your own
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Not when tissue culture is applied…
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I still dont buy that Phylos is “stealing” genetics and propagating them using tissue culture. There is zero evidence that this is happening. What, exactly, are they stealing that they couldn’t get freely? Tons of breeders would volunteer to help them with genetics.
The breeding program they are starting is common among other plants. It’s called marker assisted selections. They do have a large database of markers though, and that was paid for by the customers.
These should probably belong in the Phylos Grumblings thread.
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Moved Phylos related concerns over here. Carry-on…
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Thanks, I would have done it but it’s a PITA on mobile.
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they have the abilty in their lab right now as they offer this servicce to nurseries like wonderland already and their terms of service explicitly say they have the right to use “THE MATERIAL” anyway they want including transfering those rights to whoever they want. it also is not about stealing the strain and selling it as is. they are using it to select breeders and making new stuff but htey garnered an unfair advantage in a decietful way knowing they are the only other ppl with the plant material to do this. tbh i dont know how someone could think they won’t. if they have a sample cataloged physically then for example the plant matter of a cbd hemp strain someone submitted can be used if they wanna breed some special hemp of their own they can absolutley recreate that persons sample and use it as a breeder for their projects. while this doens’t seem horrible it is because of the lies and the associations these ppl have. it’s more thn this to, but i’ve been wrting on this all morning includoing a 45min back and forth with the ocp patent lawyer whom i also voiced my concerns with privately last year. so im exhausted, imo tho you are being to idealistic and trusting and that is a good thing sometimes but in this case that is exactly what they took advantage of. idealistic giving and trusting community of ppl
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oh and fyi in that convo with dale c hunt i had this morning right on the web(my insta page) for all to see dale c hunt admitted to me the open cannbais project is not against patents, he didnt say this last year when i said you are a patent lawyer and i’m worried about your conflict of interest regarding ocp in an email exchange we had back then. anyway today he said open cannbais is not against patenting of strains, that isn’t what phylos is doing it’s just a seprarte red flag. and proof this attorney isdouble dipping from both sides. ppl need to really hammer them ppl as hard as they are hammering phylos
i may post the trancripte here later if i calm down or have time. i would send you there but the way insta works and the way he replied put the convo out of chronologcal order so i would need to cut and paste it into a cohesive thing. if you are brave and want to attempt to follow it yourself in order just know some things are nested in other comments that are part of other nested comments etc. the only thing labeled clearly is part 1-4 which was my first respnse to his comment on my page
my insta is outliergenetix
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I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding here and with a lot of the insta-thinkers on instagram… the “material” Phylos gets from breeders is dead and cannot be used to grow, or contribute genetic characteristics to, new plants. Cannot-be-used-to-grow-or-make-new-plants-period.
Clearly none of the commenters here have submitted a sample to Phylos for testing. I have. They ask for, and only except, submissions of dead leaf or crushed seed material. The leaf sample can be as small as the hole from a paper punch (about 3mm). Anyone sending in clones or viable seed is a) stupid and b) not reading the directions for submitting samples, or c) working under some other agreement with the company in which the IP rights of the material have been fully elucidated between the parties.
The “it” they are using is the INFORMATION, not the plant material. The material is dead, and further destroyed in the genetic sequencing process. Ground up, liquified, preserved in formaldehyde, analyzed and disposed of. Gone.
Phylos wants to use the genetic INFORMATION to figure out how to breed new better cannabis, this seems to be true given recent statements by the company. Whether this change in business model represents a betrayal and a threat to small boutique breeders like myself, or the greater “cannabis community” as it is (I’m thinking mostly of personal and boutique growers mostly) is worthy of debate. But lets start with an understanding of what we’re debating.
Phylos publishes its strain sequencing information, so that strains “in the wild” i.e., publicly available, can be identified and recognized as public and not privately owned and invented. The OCP seeks to be the policy advocate and ultimate repository for this strain information, held in the public trust through an open source licensing arrangement that will guarantee that foundational cannabis strains that have been in the public domain for decades or centuries will remain so, and not be claimed by private-equity carpetbaggers looking to 10x their investment is an cute little IP aggregation and roll-up scheme while the potheads squabble amongst themselves about Monsanto and Frankenbud.
By identifying and open-sourcing foundational strains, everyone will win in the end - heirloom growers and breeders who get to keep on doing their thing, and Corporate Pot, which will get a 1000-strain palette of cannabis genes to return to and select from in building the industrial cannabis strains that will inevitably come through commercialization of this industry.
Think of tomatoes - there’s supermarket strains, canning company strains, suburban garden center strains, exotic seed catalog varieties, and freely-traded heirlooms for home gardeners. Not perfect of course, but not necessarily in conflict either. Something for everyone.
Will Phylos’ data and knowledge be extremely helpful in understanding which public domain strains are useful for imparting different sought-after traits breeding programs? Yes, eventually. Mowgli Holmes thinks it will happen in a few years, less than five. But then he’s pitching to raise $20M, when CEOs are prone to storytelling.
Will Phylos have an “unfair” advantage with its treasure of genetic data? Over who? Monsanto? Canopy or Privateer, with their billion-dollar war chests? I’m pretty sure they will eventually get snapped up or crushed by the truly Big Money moving into cannabis. But maybe, just maybe, if they can engineer a, say, mildew-immune strain of SK1 and NL1, and sell some clones and seeds of crosses with the NoPM strains to commercial outdoor ops, they can fund themselves independently for a few more years and finish the work on mapping the cannabis public domain.
Cannabis is becoming legal. With it comes commercial property rights. Rights, the saying goes, are like muscles. You have to use them or you lose them. Either we as a community assert our community rights to cannabis strains in the public domain, or someone else will for themselves. Doing nothing is not a defensible option and will in fact accelerate the very demise of what you seek to protect.
Peace -b420
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