fair enough about the plant material. i would still maintain they coulda made this very clear as i have asked them this directly and they didnt anwer it that concisely. i even directly asked dale hunt today but he skiped that question and instead said the ocp is not against patents, which isnt even what i was saying at that time really. you are correct tho i see now their page since this all happened is now clearly adressing this which is good to see. their terms before did say they had the rights to use the material and transfer these rights to other parties which was disturbingly vague unless you have submitted something i would say it would be hard to know thta and still ocncerning why not clearly state it as they are now. this is what their page says atm, and again i put to them the qestion before if they destroy the samples and they neglected to answer me
Can Phylos breed new plants using the sample that I submitted for testing?
No. It is not scientifically possible to recreate viable germplasm (live plants) from the samples submitted for testing.
Could someone else get my sample and recreate a plant?
No. We destroy all samples after we complete the testing. Additionally, it is not scientifically possible to recreate viable germplasm (live plants) from the samples submitted for testing.
Then how are you getting germplasm for your breeding program?
We secure germplasm like any other breeder: through contacts with other growers.
***iâm not gonna get into the rest because i do still disagree for now on your other points and iâm tired and at work, but i would put dupont in the category of monsento and they are doing business with them
it is also impossible for me to believe they were to stupid to avoid this with some clarity and transparancy and that this inhouse idea was not in the plans from inception of at least the ocp
also i donât want to think of tomatoes because big ag ruined food produce diversity already
i also just want to add that while this isnât related to phylos i am still alarmed by the fact ocpâs attorney told me in writing that the ocp is not against the patenting of plants based on sequenceing. it doesnât jive with their mission statement imo
Yes Morgwar, we will overgrow these assholes.
Support you local breeders. Source you genetics with breeders who are outside of the system.
I will never purchase Canadian cannabis myself. I choose not to supprot them. I am fortunate I am self-suficent.
Not so sure about Marijuana becoming legal in the US any time soon. Biden is the front runner for the Democratic ticket and he has been staunchly against legalization from day one. Creepy Joe has also been a proponent of the WAR ON DRUGS for his entire political career. Trump remains supportive of limited medical marijuana, but not legalizing recreational marijuana. So I would not stake anything on marijuana legalization in the US until after 2024 except at the state level. Even if federally legal, states will still be able to retain bans on marijuana. Meanwhile Mexico is apt to legalize recreational marijuana by the end of this year.
Also if (a big IF) marijuana is legalized at the federal level, commercial property rights for marijuana Cannabis plants will fall under the control of the US patent laws. As plants: ONLY GMO and CLONES OF A SINGLE PLANT can be patented. You cannot patent a seed or seed run of any plant strain unless they are GMO. So there are and will be no rights to own regarding seeded plants. As such, what you are âbuyingâ by registering any Cannabis plant strain genetics is virtually worthless for protecting any rights to that plant strain. Even if you register it now.
Phylos claims that you can use their genetic profile tests of your strains to âdefend your intellectual propertyâ. But that is worthless, as that cannot be done, unless there is some GMO aspect to the plants that were engineered into it. As there are no GMO certified Cannabis seeds as yet, any seeds and strains out there now cannot be patented now or in the future, save for clones of specific Cannabis plants. Even if you got a Phylos certified and authenticated genetic profile of your mother plant of Ugly Bettyâs Dead Dog OG Kush that you bred in your basement, you still have to 1) wait until marijuana becomes legal in the US in order to file a patent on it, and then 2) file for the patent on it and its clones. You do not get any rights to any seeds made form that plant or any seeds made from the clones of that plant. The genetic IP that you pay to get from Phylos does nothing in this process and adds zero value to getting a patent as well.
IMO, doing absolutely nothing is the same as doing something here. Waste of money people. Its a scam.
From the US patent and trademark office (key words here are âasexually reproducedâ, as in clones):
A plant patent is granted by the United States government to an inventor (or the inventorâs heirs or assigns) who has invented or discovered and asexually reproduced a distinct and new variety of plant, other than a tuber propagated plant or a plant found in an uncultivated state. The grant, which lasts for 20 years from the date of filing the application, protects the patent ownerâs right to exclude others from asexually reproducing the plant, and from using, offering for sale, or selling the plant so reproduced, or any of its parts, throughout the United States, or from importing the plant so reproduced, or any part thereof, into the United States. This protection is limited to a plant in its ordinary meaning:
A living plant organism which expresses a set of characteristics determined by its single, genetic makeup or genotype, which can be duplicated through asexual reproduction, but cannot otherwise be âmadeâ or âmanufactured.â
Cultivated sports, mutants, hybrids, or transformed plants, where sports or mutants may be spontaneous or induced, and hybrids may be natural, from a planned breeding program, or somatic in source. While natural plant mutants might have naturally occurred, they must have been discovered in a cultivated area.
Most cannabis strain patents being sought and granted today are not plant patents but utility patents, which can be far broader and encompassing, impacting many strains at once. Look again at the patent application by CBD Crew I linked to above for examples. They are seeking to patent strains based on their resulting cannabinoid and terpene content, i.e, âa plant that upon harvest produces flowers which contain between 10-15% THCA and less than 2% CBD by weightâ. Phylosâ genotype mapping, combined with chemotype mapping (cannabinoid and terpene content), could be critical making sure strains that have been in the community for years donât get swept up in these very broad utility patents.
Kevin Jodrey explains the Phylos situation and specifically the real threats from utility patents and the real Big Ag siege yet to come when federal legalization arrives:
kevin is a hero of mine, and i was seriously saddend he wa sticking with phylos before i got the deal with samples being dead and that being a non issue for me now, however i think we can all admit kevin is like their personal rep. i can embed a video of him saying he gets suck a big discount for driving so many large clients to phylos that nobody can compete with him that wants to do testing. add to this fact his nursery relies on the male/female and early terp tests that most csannot afford to save his nursery so much time in turnover and cost in growing that he wouldnât not support phylos if they asked to permanently embed a 15" buttplug in his ass. again, he;'s my hereo but letâs take his comments on phylos with a grian of salt. and again i relaize the phylos thing is not what i or many thought at fir
In other words, Jodrey uses the Phylos technology and finds it beneficial to his business, extremely valuable even. His business being breeding and running a cannabis nursery. And in running his business he seeks to reduce costs through vendor discounts and referrals.
So is Jodrey now Big Pot? If we label every business person in the cannabis business as the enemy, we wonât have very many friends left. These stoner circular firing squads are pointless and resolve nothing. Weâd have a bigger impact if we just boycotted Corona beer and Doritos tortilla chips. But that would take sacrifice and commitment, a bridge too far no doubt for many.
no thatâs not at all âin other wordsâ. he gets different pricing that even if they did something unethical he would likely not forgo them because they are so intrical to his bottom line as a business. i even made it clear my phylos concerns were mostly quelled so i have no issue now with kevin;s phylos relationship. i was simply pointing out, via his own words about his discount, that i cannot consider him objective on the matter going forward is all. doesnât make him anything you extrapolated from my statement, certainly not from my perspective
He basically says that every company like his has an agenda and is only concerned with profit first. Then says genetics belong to everybody, then says the company line that you can protect your genetics by giving them to Phylos with an implication that they would then sell those genetics on to breeders.
Sometimes it is wise to listen to how a person described themselves, it is very often true.
GOD DAMN IT!!!. Dude, I had that name picked out for my Gorilla Glue #4 X Girl Scout Cookies âforum cut I.B.L.â seed line bro. Now wtf am i gonna do?
GrrrrâŚ
j/k
I still consider Kevin #1 go-to cannabis guy in my books still.
He was pretty matter-of-fact about what Phylos is doing and what they have already done. He doesnt see an issue with it.
That being said, Kevin never discussed about Mowgliâs lies.
Maybe heâs not aware of these supposed videos? (I say supposed because I personally have not seen them myself, but it is acknowledged that they do exist).
Im pretty sure tho Kevin has had many, many chances to grab the golden parachte and cash out. Yet he is still here. No doubt he could call 5 Canadian cannabis companies and be their CEO by next week if he chose so.
Thats where my faith in Kevin still lies. Until I see something different, I still have faith in Kev.
BUT, I also have much respect for those who are mad right now. The guys who submitted their work at great cost. The breeders who feel cheated. I totally support and respect their feelings and opinions. I only want whats fair to be fair.
ONLY TIME WILL TELL.
The data is what I believe is most valuable, as opposed to just âplant materialâ
bro he makes so much more money than a CEO of some canadien cannabis companyy it isnât even funny. greenhouse seeds offered him a million per just to be their nursery. kevin said he told them âa million dollars?â âi got that in a paint can under my deskââŚ
kevin is still in my top 3 cannabis knowledge go toâs, but him and phlos have a symbiotic relationship that nothing will get in the way of. to be clear again, i am not even taking issue with phylos anymore as it is allot clearer now, but seriously you can rely on what he says about phlyos about as much as you could if he was thier CEO. that doesnât mean what he says about phylos isnât true either, but if something like we thought ever really went down with phylos, i wonât be going to keving for an objective opinion
agreed. 100%. He has a great mind for he business. Has excellent advice on all things cannabis.
But yea, when it comes to anything Phylos, I cannot count on Kevin to give an objective opinion on the subject, in my opinion.
OutHouse Seeds lmaoâŚI wouldnt use Green House seed to feed birds with.
Arjan = stolen genetics, stolen valor, paid for winning cannabis cups.
But the worst thing that twat Arjan ever did was to search out and find âlandraceâ strains and then polluting them with his stolen Black Widow, or his Ultra Super-Duper Haze #4:unamused:
Fucking clown.
RIP Franco
Sorry, still cannot be done as you say here. Utility patents like you describe simply do not apply in this case. The USDA OWNS ALL (yes every one) of the patent rights to ALL the cannabionoids and terpinoids in Cannabis. Your key words are âCBD Crew⌠are seekingâŚâ as in they do not hold any such patents as yet, and they likely never will. I can apply for a patent on all computers ever made, but that does not mean I will get it. Nor can I ever enforce it.
Fear factor people. Pure and simple. Green rush sucker bets. What they (the likes of CBD Crew) are trying to patent is like someone trying to patent making alcohol from wine grapes. Seems that people here want to pump up the Phylos sales volume for some reason. Seems fishy to me. Jodrey is a jail bird. I met him once at Wonderland. Knows a lot about growing clones and old strains, but he is not 10 feet tall. I do not trust him myself. Just the feeling I got. He is a convicted dealer. His words to me.
In the end of all this blather and banter? The future of marijuana is not in Cannabis. It is in YEAST. Look at what they are cranking out in the labs at UC Berkeley. Yeast to make any cannabinoid or terpinoid that you want. In a vat. Just add water, sugar and yeast. All at 1/100th the cost. That is the future of weed, people. All the beverages, Rx pharmaceuticals and vape oil (which accounts for half of all California sales, according to your famed Mr Jodrey) will come from a vat of yeast, and not from a plant. That future is here now.
I hereby bequeath to you fine sir, all vested interest in the name âUgly Bettyâs Dead Dog OG Kushâ and any future claim to that name for you to use any way that you feel fit.
The problem is people donât seem to have the foresight to see over the bridge of their nose. None of this computer-based breeding is new.
Also, the anti-phylos people should really be spending their effort encouraging people to use an alternative if they truly fear for the future. All the phylos smearing and Iâve not seen a single person rep an alternative.
What phylos really needs is someone who is amassing genetics tho, on a worldwide scale. Alternatively, someone like breeder steve needs a company like phylos to help pre-search all the genetics heâs buying.
Oh you mean like scatman Sam? Basically chimera said the 3 old heads they âusedâ were promised the world by Phylos. Phylos would do all the data mining and provide them w sure fire no lose genetics and everybody wins. All the heads had to do was gather the genetics. They gathered the genetics then got oaky doked by Phylos. That is chimeras version. Why it took so long for chimera to chime in and Sam remains silent, I dunno. Knowing both of there egos and the propensity for them to piss on the commoners from their ivory towers, it wouldnât surprise me if it took that long to concoct his story or thatâs how long their hired PR team took. Why he let this drag on is perplexing at best
Edit: if you want to see the slippery slope big Ag influence is starting⌠see exhibit A. If you enter the cultivation classic (and more on the way i would assume) you are relinquishing rights to data mining/sharing through a partnership with Phylos. Read that again⌠you submit your gear, we steal the data
j/k
