I use Google translate. Even though I can read Spanish, I am slow at it. So I cheat.
Me he expresado mal en ingles, para no variar : si había oído “colombiana (de color) verde” como diferenciación con “amarillas/doradas”, " rojas" y “purpuras/moradas”, pero desconocía se denominara " Green Colombia" exactamente, ni su región de origen…
En cuanto a la inexistencia del termino “verde limón”, no solo los limones son verde brillante antes de volverse amarillos, sino que todos los hispanohablantes conocen el termino, incluso la mítica canción española Ojos Verdes:
" Ojos verdes, verdes como
la albahaca…,
ojos verdes,
con brillo de navaja,
…que se han clavado en mi corazón…
…Verdes como el trigo verde…
…y al verde…Verde Limón! "
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Yeah, is OK if ya said: “It’s a S1 of X”.
But same Banks, like Dutch Passion did when they made a S1 of a Destroyer CannaBioGen clon, líes bout the origins of the " new strain", like this: “Desfran is an puré South American puré sativa with we have been workin durin 20 years…”
Continuando con el ejemplo del Pastor Aleman y la jerga Cannabica:
Ahora, de ese Pastor Alemán puedes separar lineas/genotipos (por colores, longitud de pelo…); o buscar solo maduración temprana y homogeneidad (equivaldría a Pastor Alemán linea Belleza), o buscar la máxima potencia sin importar tanto lo demás (Pastor Alemán linea Trabajo)…
Continuing with the example of the German Shepherd and the jargon Cannabica: Now, from that German Shepherd you can separate lines / genotypes (by color, hair length …); or seek only early maturation and homogeneity (would equate to German Shepherd line Beauty), or seek the maximum power without importing so much the rest (German Shepherd line Work) …
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Sigo con la muy simplificada comparación entre perros/cannabis…:
Ahora, si cojo dos variedades/razas distintas, obtendré un F1 (ejemplo: Pastor Alemán X Dobermann= Lupoide X Lupoide). Pero lo que conocemos como “vigor híbrido mendelianodel F1” es potenciado por la mayor diferencia genética entre parentales (Pastor Alemán X Rottweiler = Lupoide X Molosoide)…
Solo que entre el cannabis hay mucha mas variación genética que entre perros… Ni toda la genética se rige por las Leyes de Mendel…
I continue with the very simplified comparison between dogs / cannabis …: Now, if I catch two different varieties / races, I will get a F1 (example: German Shepherd X Dobermann = Lupoide X Lupoide). But what we know as “F1’s mendelian hybrid vigor” is enhanced by the greater genetic difference between parents (German Shepherd X Rottweiler = Lupoide X Molosoide) … Only between cannabis is there much more genetic variation than between dogs … N’ Not all genetics is governed by Mendel’s Laws …
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…pero eso no quiere decir que una variedad cannabica IBL presente un único genotipo, como igualmente existen diferentes genotipos de Dobermann (negro fuego, rojo marrón, …)
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Digging around looking for new seeds in Colombia and Central America, it seems that much of what was in Colombia and Panama has been or is being replaced with what they are calling “Punto Creepy.” Punto Creepy is apparently a cross of the older local landraces with afghan genetics. I am getting some seeds in trade and I will try growing some Punto Creepy here to see what it turns out like. I hope it is not another skunk or OG cross.
Looking on YouTube there are a lot of sensational media hype about Punto Creepy, AKA Punto CRIPI. The media in Colombia are claiming that Punto Creepy is 5x more powerful than original Colombian landrace weed and that is as highly addictive as crack. Not true of course, on either claim, but that is what I found searching for Punto Creepy on YouTube.
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I have only heard of it through @MadScientist, it will be cool to see more grows and see how it holds up to connoisseurs scrutiny.
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That only means i am gonna send you some too bro! Let no one say!
Not true, i only wish… It turns purple towards the end in the costarican mountains, at like 3000mt above water, so i dunno man! @BigSur, @ryasco and @Blowingupjake will tell you guys!
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Ah, Punto Creepy is rather interesting if you Google it, and read some of the Spanish MJ sites. Apparently there are a lot of things that Creepy refers to and it varies as to where you are in Colombia. There is also a lot of debate about its origins, the term, what strain it is and what method is used for growing it. It reminds me of the debate here about what OG stands for in OG Kush. Here is my shot at translating and interpreting it:
First off, Creepy is spelled a lot of ways in Colombia. Kreepy, CRIPIN, CRIPI, la cripa, etc. A consensus seems to be that the term Creepy is short for Kryptonite, Kryptonite being green of course, and the one thing that can even put Superman down. As in couch lock for Superman. Or dope smokers. Then there is a separation seemingly by region as to what Creepy actually is. Some say it is a hybrid of one of any of the local Colombian strains and an imported one, most likely skunk. Though some say it can be a cross with any imported indica dominant strain, most likely from California or Holland. Others say that is BS, and that Creepy is simply the Colombian term for what we call sinsemilia in Mexico and the US. Meaning seedless female flower tops of local landrace Colombian strains. The debate seems to be very circular and about as conclusive as is the debate about the origins of OG and what it means here in the states: OverGrow, Ocean Grown, Original Ganstah being the three most popular. Though OG here in Oregon is becoming more commonly used as an acronym for Oregon Grown.
So seemingly Creepy is a loose term for indigenous strains of weed in Colombia (and Panama) that was grown as sinsemilia, and/or weed that is a hybrid of a local strain crossed with a strain from outside Colombia (or Panama). I also read one news article written in Colombia that referred to Creepy as being synthetic marihuana imported from China, but that seems to be based on fiction. Punto Creepy is just a variation on creepy, as there are several punto/a strains in Colombia, most notably Punto Rojo and Punta Roja. Punto Rojo generally means red point, a strain grown in the central region to the east side of the western mountain region which has red hairs. It is a racy/speedy sativa strain. According to locals there, that is a different variety than the more common Punta Roja, which is a common term used for Colombian Red. Colombian Red is basically lowland Colombian grown in the north. A lot of lowland Colombian weed was bricked when green and fermented when being shipped before it dried. So it lost its color and was often sold as “Colombian Gold” here in the states. In reality it was more of a dark brown color and was not the same as Santa Marta Gold. It was the opposite in the high, as Santa Marta was similar to Punto Rojo in that it has a speedy sativa high. Lowland Colombian was narcotic and made me want to crawl under the coffee table and pass out. Which I actually did on several occasions…
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And one other thing to point out. The main skunk strain from Holland (Skunk #1) is said to have been a cross between Santa Marta Colombian Gold x Acapulco Gold x an Afghani Kush. So if skunk is in Creepy, as many say it is in Colombia, it has genetics that have come full circle from Colombia to California to Holland and back to Colombia.
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Good info, i appreciate it! @BigSur
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Which came first the seed or the plant? We all got our start some how as the seeds came with the place. If i use others work in pollen chucking I keep the names and give credit. I once not too long ago got so excited about some testers I crossed them angering the man who had worked the selections for several years. In the end i publicly apologized and promised not to spread the ill-gotton genetics ? I took the high road but still see both sides.
I dont sell but i trade like a mad man.
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Comming from an ag background. A person could take any of these polyhybrids and whittle them down to ibl with selection and patience.
Take a standard white widow/ak47. As p1 and p2
F1 will have the vigour of a cross and present above average. If you sib cross the AK/widow f1s the f2 will be all over the place, but selection from a large pool should get you back in line for f3. F3 to f4 and f4 to f5 will get exponentially easy to select from untill you get uniformity. Sure there will will be traits playing peekaboo from time to time but once you get the heterozygous/homozygous thing down ibl isn’t impossible from poly’s
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What I’m curious about is the supposed phenotype(genotype) hype. Take for instance the chemdog lineup, all of them originated from the same bag. So some are outcrossed to nl and afghani, skunk, etc but backcrossed so many times its negligible.
So when a certain breeder claims to cross chem 91 to chem 4 or whatever he claims its an f1 hybrid.
I can’t see it as an f1hybrid because the two plants share source genetics .
Really to me Its barely an outcross.
You can mold a plant to your hearts desire selecting for certain terp profiles or stone, but from what I know if you cross to its ancestors/cousins it simply resets. So lets say you have you’re German shepherd and cross it to wolf. There isn’t any hybrid vigour because there isn’t enough variation.
Cross it to a coyote and you get hybrid vigour from what I’m seeing in my back yard, because the coyote isn’t the source genotype and is a more distant ancestor. (Coyote dogs tend to be huge)
I’m probably wrong but the way I see it people are f1 crossing this plant into a beautiful but jumbled mutt.
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Or when a copy cat seed company copies blueberry which is a f5 I believe then label them as f2’s but since they took two f5’s and made their copies that are actually f6…Theres so much hype and bs surrounding the seed buisness it’s ridiculous! And there should be a best before date printed on each pack to avoid scammers from selling old seeds.
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Growing landrace Lebanese from different sources, there are two common phenos that I have seen pop up. One being a smaller leaf sativa pheno, and a larger leaf indica pheno. The chemotypes and highs are almost identical, but not the phenos. The sativa also blooms and finishes about 3 weeks earlier. These strains, while likely originally from Greek Kalamata and/or a Turkish strain or strains, have been grown there since the 1920s and in HUGE numbers over vast areas (in the tens of thousands of plants). The seeds pop off in the fields, and are also mixed when collected there after drying when the plants are sieved for making hashish, and they are usually all planted (tossed out in the fields) the next year. The high number of plants grown there seems to have kept the strain from shifting, but it still retains the two distinct phenos.
As for F1 vs IBL? If one of the above two phenos of Lebanese above are crossed, is it an F1 or an IBL? They are not from one clone, but from a large pool of a landrace. As for Dog Bud → S1 Chem Dog → Dawg → NYC Diesel and any number of other strains derived from it, that is IBL. Its all one strain.
Amusing too, I got an email from Phylos today saying that they are going to sell genetic certification for strains. They say that there are so many claims of wide genetics being named the same it is insane. So if you have a new cross, say Jimmy’s Monster Bud, you can have its genetics profiled and in future only that genetic profile will be established and verified as being the real Jimmy’s Monster Bud. As opposed to all the S1, F1 and IBL crosses that may occur over time with genetics that drift. I do not know what that will get anyone, but that is what they are offering.
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The sinai strain I picked up from world of seeds has a similar description. There’s a tall lanky sativa that tends to grow like a vine, and also a bushy indica.
Both presenting in a landrace strain.
I believe the landrace is the healthiest representation and true breeding or ibl to be a bit dodgy when it comes to mutations, variegation, as in the chem dog lines.
So my understanding is chem 4 chem 91, chem d, chem3, are all just phenotypes of the same plant.
I’m not sure what happened to the cannabis scene but once science steps in a lot of these fly by night “breeders” are going to have egg on there faces.
I’d like to see overgrow as a forum that focuses more on true phylotaxy.
actual horticultural standards and terminology are the only way to go to gain legitimacy.
We have to treat this plant the same way we treat roses or tomatoes.
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