If you do not think sam wants you to pay royalty on his genetics, have a read.
This was 10-20 years ago.
Sam knows exactly how many varieties would pay royalties he has an exact number, he even posted it.
I forget the number, but it is posted on ICrag.
Posted by Nevil -
Yeah, I’ve heard Sam whining before about how he should really get a royalty from everyone who he sold seeds to who used his genetics, 50% for pure lines and 25% for hybrids.
I think one day he will get his wish.
When I say these things, folks tell me I am just crazy.
But here you see his real thoughts/plans.
This is his end-game plan for his genetics. Royalties on every plant and seed sold.
You should look into the matter before you form an opinion.
Cannabis Royalties are going to be the way of the future.
What do you think the plant patents are for.
Knowledge is power, my friend.
I actually know a thing or two about patents as I’ve been working on teams that produce intellectual property for around 28 years.
Plant patents with cannabis are unenforceable given the current technology and legal landscape.
If we get to the point where we can reliably fingerprint genetic material using an accurate, deterministic process, apply a one-way cryptographic hash mechanism, and then PUBLISH this on a data platform that also underpins an economic payment system/method, then maybe I could begin to agree with you. However, this process also needs to be able to cover genetic crosses with high probabilities and I don’t see us getting anywhere near that soon.
Right now, there is no way to enforce anything and way too many breeders and pollen chuckers.
Sam has not done any real plant work in a very long time. Patents only serve to reduce competition for a period of 20 years. That has long ago expired with Skunk #1.
What you are spewing is FUD. Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. Everyone is scared of the big corporate takeover but all I see is more and more and more home growers, hobby growers, small and large commercial entities all competing. Guess which segment is growing the fastest? In my book it is home growers. Large ops are having big problems.
Then why spend millions of dollars on them?
Why bother at all, oh maybe they will be enforceable in the future.
This has been to go to response for you nay-sayers for over 10 years.
I am stickin to my guns.
I was told 10 years ago there would be no such thing as cannabis plant patents.
I think it was sam that said that too.
Why would he lie?
Does he have a dog in the fight?
Maybe that is why he lies so much.
Seems that you saying you think more plants are currently being grown in homes?
I will have to disagree here.
A granted patent gives the grantee exclusive rights for 20 years (in the USA) to develop business using the method or system patented. Once the time is up, it’s gone.
Please name one patented Cannabis strain that has been brought to market. I’ll wait.
There are for damned sure more home growers than commercial / corporate. I did not say plant counts.
@GrownAtHighAltitude to work in the field, you must be pretty darn smart, I mean that honestly.
I would like to say, you seem like a good gent. but I do like a bit of debate.
Peaceful debate that is…
I must admit this stuff is over my head, you have to read and read and read and you still don’t fully understand. @HolyAngel
You seem to be up on these things.
Are you able to comment?
Ok fair enough.
But what would you say if we were talking plant counts?
Might those numbers be in favor of commercial?
This something new has to be marketed and consumed. It has to contribute economically to be viable. This is the only way an exclusive patent can be exploited, by building a business on top of it. These businesses need to be able to carve out a market. The base incentives are to make money by marketing to consumers.
There are millions of home growers at this point, all over the world, with any untold number of different combinations of Cannabis genetics. They are mostly incentivized by quality, and naturally leads to discovery of better genetics unencumbered by patent protection.
These two forces are at odds with each other. The only way a patent should be granted is based on something novel and unique, but to exploit it, it must be better than what has come before. Growers all over the world know the best shit comes from the best genetics.
Counting on clueless consumer zombies to overwhelmingly support a patented franken-weed strain in hypothetical Federally locked down, exlusively regulated, heavily controlled markets is just a pipedream. Are you going to stop growing just to become a corporate consumer slave?
I just don’t think any of it will be enforceable in real world conditions, and even if patents are upheld, I can’t see it leading to viable products that the majority of consumers overwhelmingly desire, all in a span of 20 years in order to establish monopoly marketplace dominance.
I’m not a patent expert, I just know some things about them having worked with actual patent experts for many years. I definitely don’t know everything, I just call it how I see it.
I think corporate is hitting higher plant counts than home breeders. Especially in long-term rec legal places. When you can buy dank for $2-4 a gram it makes it difficult to spent the time/money growing it yourself. I don’t live in one of those places lol. But look at Breeder Steve down in Columbia running a ~million plants per year. Working towards making sterile plants and other mutations.
Cripsr is all that’s needed to inject a genetic signature into whatever cultivar to define it as yours. Look at monsanto with their corn. Some testing needed to ensure the plant passes the mark in breeding. Can’t be that difficult as we’ve already done this in other species… Will be less difficult than line breeding something that isn’t in the current public domain. Once things are federally legal we will have full mapping of the genome and genetic fingerprints for each “elite” cultivar and anyone else that has the money.
Utility patents for breeding and other processes have already been granted as well as cultivar specific patents.
I live in a place in the country where native peoples have been growing their own corn varieties going back from hundreds to over a thousand years (Spanish and Native Americans in northern New Mexico).
People go out of their way from all over in order to source these varieties of corn. There are many farmers here who grow the heirloom and organic varieties. We have next to no GMO plantings because this is not “Big Corn” country, and there is plenty of demand.
There will always be a market for traditional varieties because not all consumers are stupid.
Oh no doubt, but if your traditional variety gets pollinated by someone growing monsanto corn down the road. Guess who can get sued? You
Once it’s fed legal these companies can do the same thing with cannabis. They cannot patent anything we’re currently growing. but they can create their own. If they GMO or breed something vastly superior to all our current genetics… of course most people are going to want it. And want to breed with it… That’s the point. No FUD on current stuff, but the future genetic landscape in the majorities eye looks bleak. Burpie cannabis here we come.
A good example of this is, just a mutation in the right direction, if I have it right.
Imagine what GMO cannabis might look like?
But look at MAC, it is almost like GG4, everyone is crossing their favorite with that one these daze.
I think that for those who intend to run a legitimate cannabis business… for profit obviously, will one day soon, be paying the piper to folks like chimera, sam skunk man and many others who have been delving deeply into the science of cannabis and isolating/mapping the genetic codes (phylos).
I will admit , my eyes were opened by the persistence of @shag and I steer clear of folks who I do believe have intent to try and own and get royalties from any business that works with or profits from those genetics. It’s really no surprise as this has been the way of human beings since the first thought of “ownership” came into our brains.
For the home grower with a modest seed collection, growing thier own stash, I can’t see how any of these “business issues” would be problem. There is already an infinte amount of seed in the hands of private growers around the globe. Patents on weed strains is pretty much going to be a non issue for the home grower.
If plant tracking becomes a reality , where a genetic marker is added to a line in the lab , then it can be tracked and traced. If governments adopt a legal frame work where only plants with genetic marker and tag are legal… which they absolutey want and are researching as I type this… then these plant patents will indeed affect the home grower as only trackable/traceable genetics could be grown.
Those days are coming and I bet top dollar the sam’s and chimeras and others will be right there with thier hands out demanding to be paid.
These are the realities and there are many players in the game with intentions that are contrary to the belief that we are a “community” where everyone has honorable intentions.
I’ll throw this out there… I believe that “RKS” is a myth but I don’t believe skunk weed is a myth. Confused? hehehe. Where I lived in British Columbia as a kid, I played in the creeks near my house and there was skunk cabbage everywhere. Strong eye watering skunk stench when you kicked one and broke the flower. I remember riding my bike through the neighborhoods and often smelling foul dead skunk from an actual road killed skunk. I also remember my biker affiliated uncle growing skunk plants and in the 90’s was caught up in one of the provinces largest weed busts. I believe it was in the ballpark of 16 thousand plants.
I smoked skunk weed at 16 with my uncle and then again a couple years later at a Vanhalen 5150 tour concert. I wasn’t old enough to know bugger all about weed but I definately remember 3 smells from my youth , living in delta bc near the bog and creeks… actual skunk spray on my friends dogs, dead on the road skunk and skunk cabbage. My memory tells me that the BC skunk being grown all over surrey and delta and elsewhere, smelled a whole lot more like skunk cabbage than an animal skunk type odor. Perhaps is was just another skunk from the same seeds everyone else had back then but if my uncle was growing the bc skunk for near a decade back in the 80’s/90’s it had to be a clone as it was biker affilliated.
anyhow… there.s my morning ramble… take it for what you will. I’m in my 50’s now and I firmly believe that this RKS that everyone has been chasing for all this time is a myth driven by hype and perpetuated by those who want to sell skunk seeds and clones LOL
I don’t buy Burpee seeds. There are plenty of alternatives for me to choose from.
My point was that it is a competitive market and any new entrant who wants to protect their precious exclusive plants also has to compete against a marketplace of breeders that has been accelerating rapidly for 50 years.
I wish them luck because information is disrupting the nature of commercial exploitation. There is a reason that Monsanto isn’t even called that anymore, and had to be purchased by transnational foreign corporate owners. There is still a huge backlash against their practices and it isn’t entirely clear that their business model will be viable long term. It has succeeded in killing off a large portion of life (bugs, insects, microbes, etc) though.
I think the time for predatory business practices is almost up, but that is my personal opinion. I’ve become hardened and armored over the decades as I’ve witnessed the world change.
I’ll have to go back and read the middle, since I skipped to the end.
My belief for skunk is that people have developed a vocabulary for weed very similar to what happens with wine.
None smokers smell skunk, not lemon with hints of fuel and rankness.
When skunk first our vocabulary for describing was very crude.
Big fan of all the old timers coming out and sharing the experience of weed cultivation during the “drug war “
New growers will never understand!
I’ve got a friend who just started smoking, and I don’t think he’s ever heard of Skunk, much less knows it’s a big deal to growers… I gave him a bud of Blueberry to sample and he said I should make blueberry muffins with it. Another friend is 10 years older than I am and grew up around someone who grew what he says was Skunk, so he’s bound and determined to grow every seed we have with Skunk in the name. As far as reading this thread or others like it, I know less now than when I started. Seems like everyone who says they know anything’s got an agenda…
So yeah, I certainly don’t understand! I don’t even know what it is I’m supposed to understand, at this point. Luckily I have a few nice keepers to work with while pheno hunting for whatever it is.
Another friend is 10 years older than I am and grew up around someone who grew what he says was Skunk, so he’s bound and determined to grow every seed we have with Skunk in the name. As far as reading this thread or others like it, I know less now than when I started. Seems like everyone who says they know anything’s got an agenda…