What to breed with Lebanese?

Breeder's Lab
#1

Hello all!

I apologize in advance for the wall of text. :dizzy_face:

I’m going to be running my first outdoor grow this coming season and I plan to do some breeding in an effort to zero in on “the ideal outdoor plant” for me (this may all be unnecessary, but more on that later), and also to just create some interesting crosses.

Climate, etc: Summers where I live are very hot and dry. Daytime temps as high as 41 C (107 F) and quite commonly 35 C (95 F) with humidity as low as 15% and average R.H. below 35% most of the summer. Nights are often a full 20 C cooler due to the desert-like climate. Rainfall from May through September is about 1 inch per month, so irrigation is mandatory to grow most things, like vegetables, most flowers, etc. Stuff like yucca, sage brush, and prickly pear cactus thrives here without irrigation. If it surprises you when I say I live in Canada, don’t worry - many Canadians don’t even know we have a climate like this here. To many, BC = Vancouver = Rain.

That is not my yard, but if I walk from my house to the nearby municipal park, that’s basically what it looks like, with a few more pine trees. Elevation is about 2400 ft. above sea level, and my property is on the south-facing side of a small mountain, with the back yard stepped and sloped upward to allow full, direct sun most of the day (not shaded by the house at all). There are areas that do get either morning or afternoon shade.

Strain selection: I’ve done quite a lot of research and the one obvious strain choice for me is Lebanese. It thrives in hot, arid conditions so it should be a good match for my climate, but on top of that its THC:CBD ratios seem just about ideal for my taste. The icing on the cake is that it is an early-flowering sativa so it typically finishes up at the end of September or early October. I have a pack of ACE Seeds regulars and a few regulars from a fellow member here who crossed the RSC Lebanese with the Blue Hemp Lebanese. So I have a variety of good Lebanese DNA.

So perhaps I don’t need to cross it with anything at all. If the Lebanese works out the way I anticipate, just breed the next generation of Lebanese.

But what fun would that be?

Of course, I will make some straight up Lebanese offspring (and I plan to keep this landrace line going for many generations), but I think it might be fun to work some other genes into the Leb and see what I can come up with.

Ideally:

  1. I’d like to maintain a nice THC:CBD balance. I think my “perfect” weed would be 3-4% THC and 8-10% CBD
  2. I have read that the Lebanese produces light, airy, foxtails. If this is the case, I wouldn’t mind breeding that out
  3. Bringing some indica into the mix might be interesting, aiming for the same sort of “synergy” that Blue Dream brings to the table.

Pipe dreams, I know. But I think I might have the answer. I recently crossed a CBDream x (CBDream x Critical Kush)

CBDream (6%THC 6%CBD) = Blue Dream x “Original” Kush
Critical Kush = Critical Mass x OG Kush (Critical Mass is said to have decent levels of CBD)

In my previous grow, I ran my original CBDream x Critical Kush and it is a very nice cross. CBDream on its own has pretty airy buds. Not foxtails, but very airy. The cross has much “kushier” buds, the yield is considerably higher, and the trichome production is at least double. I have not tested it for CBD yet, however smoking it makes me pretty sure it is high CBD.

So that cross is pretty damned nice, but for shits and giggles (and in an effort to increase my odds of high CBD) I back-crossed that cross to a fresh CBDream. Hence CBDream x (CBDream x Critical Kush).

Assuming high CBD in this back-cross (this will be tested) it might be a perfect mating partner with the Lebanese. It could bring the desired bud density, indica “synergy” and maintain a good cannabinoid balance.

That’s just one option, though. I have all of these to choose from. See anything that you think would be a good strain to breed to Lebanese?

bb1679af8625a07c8575dbfb13493fe14e26dbab.png764×734 122 KB

Obvious other choices (to me) would be Harlequin, Pennywise, or CBD Yummy but they wouldn’t bring much (if any) indica into the mix.

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#2

I just started growing geneseeds black Lebanese and blue hemp’s Lebanese. These Lebanese plants seem very interesting. In addition to having both indica and sativa phenos and elevated CBD, Ace’s tests reveal that they also have a fairly broad spectrum of terpenes. I think it doesn’t necessarily need hybridization. Given the analysis, it seems like it might already be a fairly diverse plant that was probably hybridized with several varieties during it’s history as a cultivar. For finding a mate, I wonder if it might make sense to find a strain that has relatively few terpenes and cannabinoids. Something like Malawi comes to mind if I we’re going to pick a sativa to pair it to.

For my current grow, I’m planning on crossing the black Lebanese to an old “pre-soviet” black Afghani to see how that goes. I’ll be interested to see what you come up with, and I’ll be happy to do some trades with you when you make seeds. :slight_smile:

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#3

this sounds like a great project, I’m also working with the pure real seed co lebanese as well as a hybrid of Bodhi seeds Dank Sinatra x Lebanese.

You are absolutely correct that the lebanese produces open foxtaily buds, but I was able to select away from this within the pure line. within 2 generations the ibl is much denser even without outcrossing. The rsc lebanese are very hardy and resilient plants, and have adapted amazingly well to suit my pacific northwest growing environment. I have no doubt that it will be just as malleable and able to adapt and thrive in your high desert environment.

The Ace seeds lebanese will already be highly worked, so personally I would recommend that you don’t breed with the Ace Lebanese in the first generation to help maintain genetic diversity. this could be a very useful breeding tool once you are working with your lebanese acclimatized line.

I made my dank sinatra x lebanese hybrid by including a selected dank sinatra female in my outdoor lebanese open pollination. It sounds like you’re planning to use a similar method for your hybrid pollination. My goal for this hybrid was to adapt the lebanese for convenient indoor growing. Looking at your list, I think the most interesting option would be the cannuck seeds original afghani #1. Overall I’d suggest using something close to a pure indica with a good calyx to leaf ratio, or using a local strain that is already very well adapted and grown regularly in your environment.

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#4

Thanks for the comments and info so far!

Count on it!

The “Grizzly Mix” seeds I have are from Kootenay Mountain Seed Co. and are known to be huge (up to 20 pounds per plant from some strains), hardy, outdoor plants that do well in the Kootenay mountains of BC. I am not sure how they would adapt to my climate, which is warmer and drier, but the Lebanese DNA might help with that. Apparently, harvesters sometimes have to “kick the snow off” these in the Kootenay mountains during harvest, and the plants don’t mind. I don’t necessarily need that much cold-hardiness because we usually don’t get snow here until mid-December.

PeekSeedsBC sells some Texada Timewarp crosses (known to grown very well outdoors on the BC coast) but again that climate is quite different than mine.

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#5

As a Canadian, I would have to agree with this and would have been guilty of it at the same time. When I lived and worked in Calgary and Olds, AB on my day off (Sunday) I would hit the road, and just go on long ass drives for relaxation. Everything was new for me at the time, and it was great to see a small part of this huge country, one Sunday at a time.

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#6

Despite having lived and travelled in many parts of Canada, there is still plenty I haven’t seen. One of my life goals for the future is to see as much of it as I can from a motorcycle. Then I’ll do the States


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#7

I have a buddy on another forum that lives in North Dakota That is trying to breed early finisher and perhaps a high cbd strain. I know he was using a couple Lebanese strains. I will take a look later and see what his goals and results were. Good luck fam

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#8

@cogitech have you considered keeping it un-crossed & simply selecting the best for several years, making it an ‘heirloom’ adapted to your microclimate?

i know very little of it (Lebanese) but IIRC, it’s a light & subtle flavor well suited for primo white hash ??? and maybe a blue variety? 
in which case I’d be afraid any crossing would kill the flavor profile.

:sweat_smile: just thoughts

:evergreen_tree:

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#9

Would be nice to hear about that! Thanks!

Yes, I plan to do exactly that - plus cross some of them to other strains to see what happens.

One thing that limits me is a 4 plant limit. Especially outdoors, I plan to stick to it. Although, I can always collect Lebanese pollen and use it for breeding indoors during the winter months - then try those crosses the following summer. Also, I do have some friends that might want to try growing outdoors this summer, so maybe I can give them a few Lebanese seedlings.

Blonde and Red hash are typical for Lebanese, AFAIK. Flavours/smells are often described as a mix of cedar and fruit. @PanchoVilla might be able to confirm or deny this.

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#10

leb IBL
leb x Afghani#1 or Afghan kush
Leb x pineapple express

lots of people seem to rate fruit and grape strains to hash cultivars

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#11

Without a doubt.

This seems like a popular choice, and I agree it makes sense - but it may not get me the CBD ratio I want.

Interesting! Again, I think I would lose the high CBD, but it might be a cool plant anyway. The only issue with the Pex that I have is that it is from an unknown source. SeedKing.ca sends seeds in a generic container (not a breeders pack), so they could be anything, really. I no longer order from them.

But along the same lines, I might consider Leb x Maui Wowie (Green Genes 78 Cherry Bomb) - might be kinda freaky (but again, likely lose the high CBD).

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#12

Lebanese does not have a big terpene profile. They do not reek at all. They have light floral terps that would be dominated with just about any hybrid. Ace has terpene and cannabinoid profiles listed for their Lebanese strain online. The main reasons to hybridize with Lebanese would be: to move the flowering time up outdoors to harvest in September; to reduce the odor of your plants; to add a higher CBD (variable) component to your bud. I dunno if Lebanese needs to be hybridized. I find it to be a good strain as is. Its not for everyone though. You are not going to get THC bombs or super terpene phenos from these. You will get variable CBD phenos though. The hash from Lebanon is a mix of thousands of landrace plants, so the variability is taken out with that.

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#13

I’m confused (but this is quite common).

If the terpenes are so low in Lebanese, how would hybridizing it reduce the odour further? Or, do you mean that Lebanese could be used to reduce the odour of other strains?

As always, I appreciate your sharing of knowledge in general and specifically about Lebanese.

Also, in case I wasn’t clear, I do plan to reproduce straight Lebanese IBL, but I also want to have some fun with crossing it.

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#14

pretty sure that’s the jist
it’s a non-stinker :wink:

thanks @PanchoVilla & hello mr @gordongecko :wave:

:evergreen_tree:

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#15

Yes
 Lebanese odor does not need reducing. But strains that reek may benefit from a hybrid with it.

Also in your OP, you say the harvest times are late September into October. Harvest times in Lebanon are late August to late September. The Leb phenos are variable in harvest times. I harvested some plants first week in September, and others always by end of September here at the 45th parallel at 1500’.

These plants are all grown in Lebanon for making hash. The flowers are just fine for smoking though. That was the biggest surprise for me. Not harsh at all. Also they grow TALL if pampered. Like 12 feet. Not like all the online descriptions of a short indica plant. Its not indica IMO. Narrow sativa leaves, more open flowers, and daytime high. No OG couch lock.

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#16

Excellent info! I am sure you told me all of this before, but my memory isn’t the greatest.

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#17

CBD is the hardest thing to corral IMO. Even high CBD strains of hemp are all variable in CBD in the phenos. I see CBD strains at the weed shops here grown by the same people. The CBD is all over the place even in the same strain. There seems to be no sure fire CBD strain genetics in Cannabis.The gene is likely unstable, or variable. Seems the ways to get around the variable CBD is like they do in Lebanon, to make hash from large lots of open pollinated plants. Or to clone a good one that has the level of CBD that you want. I tried to do CBD hybrids for a while but I gave up. May as well start with a strain that has been grown for a long time, like Lebanese.

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#18

Nor is mine. I have ADD so half the time I do not input the stuff to begin with. It it there and then it is not.

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#19

I have never been tested or diagnosed, so I don’t know - but I prefer to keep it a mystery, despite my suspicions. We all filter out some “noise” to remain sane, it is just that sometimes good stuff gets lost in the noise.

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#20

I hear you, brother. I have seen it stated that high CBD is a recessive trait, so it takes some doing to keep it stable. On the other hand, it seems that there is evidence that breeding a double recessive plant with another double recessive plant is a reliable method of a) dramatically increasing the number of high CBD offspring and b) producing some (about 25%) offspring with a dramatically higher CBD content than their majority siblings.

Do you know of any other landrace/IBL/stable strains that have a similar cannabinoid ratio to Lebanese? Or, at least, stable/reliable (even if variable) CBD production?

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