bullys who just know and canât explain are seldom used to being disagreed with.
no one is causing argument with you specifically, I am explaining why I am right, itâs nothing personal to you or two strokes I am not stopping anyone from building using selling them.
But if what you were saying had any kernel of truth you would see at least one at any top level of any racing which of course you donât because they donât hold up at high rpm
Haha you got me. No race experience. I put my hands up that my experience is very limited and to be honest even that Mito taught me a massive lesson and threw me off. I apologize for thinking I know it all. One thing I wonât retract though is I know 100% litre for litre, cc for cc that 2 stroke can produce far more power than 4 stroke can.
Man I like you but this is wrong in so many ways I donât know where to begin.
Piston strokes turn the crank shaft. On a 2-stroke, there is a compression stroke and an ignition/exhaust stroke. During the compression stroke, the air/fuel mixture is being compressed by the movement of the piston into the cylinder. At the top of that stroke, the spark plug fires and initiates the ignition stroke. Power is generated by the explosion as the piston is driven out of the cylinder, turning the crank. Simultaneously, fresh air/fuel mixture is pulled into the the cylinder via a one-way reed valve and exhaust gases are driven out of the exhaust port. Therefore every 2nd stroke of the piston is an ignition stroke.
On a 4-stoke, there are 4 distinct strokes. Beginning with the intake stoke, the piston moves out of the cylinder, creating negative pressure. The position of the camshaft at this time is such that the intake valve(s) are open to allow air/fuel mixture to be sucked into the cylinder. Next is the compression stroke. The camshaft is now positioned in such a way all valves in the head (both intake and exhaust) are closed. The piston moves into the cylinder, compressing the air/fuel mixture. At the top of the compression stroke, spark initiates an explosion and the ignition stroke begins, pushing the piston out of the cylinder to create power. All the valves stay closed until the ignition stroke is complete. At this point, the exhaust stroke begins. As this happens, the cam shaft reaches a position such that the exhaust valve(s) open and the movement of the piston into the cylinder pushes the exhaust gases through the valves, out through the exhaust port(s), header and muffler. Therefore, every 4th stroke is an ignition stroke. Hence, a 4-stroke.
Regardless of how many strokes, they turn a crank shaft, which is connected to the gearbox, which drives the counter shaft, upon which is usually mounted the counter shaft sprocket (many call this the front sprocket) and then a chain connects this sprocket to the rear sprocket, which drives the rear wheel. Shaft and belt drive bikes are the exception, although belt drive is very similar. The number of engine strokes it takes to turn the rear wheel once is determined by all of these factors, not the least of which is the current gear selection.
The efficiency and power advantages of the 2-stroke are mostly attributed to the fact that a 2-stroke does not have a head full of valves driven by a camshaft, cam chain, etc. which all rob power from a 4-stroke engine, and it is far easier to make a really high revving 2-stroke than a really high revving 4-stroke. All those parts in a 4-stroke head need to be manufactured and tuned extremely precisely to optimize valve timings to keep up with the demands of high revving engines. On top of that, 4-stoke engines need complex lubrication systems to pump oil up to the head to prevent damage. This is driven by the engine rotation, and therefore robs some power.
Well, earler the bikes in Motorcycle World Championship were 500 cc and 2 strokes, now they are 1000 cc and 4 strokes, so youâre right regarding cc and power relation, but you will have to admit 2 stroke belongs to the past, no evolution at all. 4 strokes is the future and less stinking ⌠
Iâll admit when Iâm wrong @cogitech and after reading what you wrote I put my hands up bend over and allow my ass to glow red. I love 2 stroke. The sound. The feeling and the smell. I bought a makita 2 stroke chainsaw a few months back and I donât even have a tree anywhere that could be cut.
Iâve no license so Iâm limited to 125cc at 14bhp. 2 strokes are a way to easily double the power. Everybody forgive me if I got things wrong.
I still donât think youâre wrong you need double the CC engine for the power to beat a 2 stroke engine but Iâm not a rider so I canât comment.
I think the simple saying of âitâs not about the car, itâs the driverâ , I imagine that transfers to riding a bike as well.
Your conclusion wasnât really âwrongâ just the logic/knowledge that brought you to your conclusion was⌠hmmm⌠inaccurate.
Forgot to mention that 2-stroke engines can be made much lighter (again, due to no head) so in situations where maximum power to weight ratio is desired, the 2-stroke is the ticket. Not many 4-stroke chain saws around. 
And I am telling you that is patently false. What you are saying assumes the two stroke fuel and 4 stroke gas in both engines is pump gas. If it was as simple as that why have they never, ever used one in the history or any top level racing?
Because itâs simply not as black and white as that. There are all kinds of engine technology that on paper and in theory and in the persons limited experience seems like one is better for specious reason that is the circular conversation that is happening here.
An analogy:
One of the last seasons that Shumacher was winning championships the next fastest and winningest team was mcclaren and they were getting their engines directly from mercedes. In the off season, when new things are being tested and the rules for the next season are about to come out, Mercedes acted on such a theory that showed making rotating assemble from beryllium, a metal just as strong as what everyone else has but lighter and more resistent to heat.
They thought it would revolutionize engine building and racing, until the FIA made it illegal because of a few problems:
To lend one credence to what youâre saying, IF you narrow the engine constraint to motorcycle engines that are stock in bikes that you can buy used in the local paper, then yes equal displacement bike engines the 2 stroke will at least have much more torque and usually its availible immediately bottom of the rev range basically at idle haha.
I donât want to represent myself as being anti 2 stroke or saying you cant have a fast bike or go cart or whatever with them not saying that at all and I like the smell if it belongs to someone else and I donât have to do the fuel mixing.
But on the top level, where the best engines are 1.6L (if that) twin turbos that are sustaining rpm over 15k rpm for 2 hour race, there is no comparison and that advantage falls completely apart.
So for a certain group of engines yes 2 stroke is superior.
But if your racecar is made by a team who pays 40 million dollars in the 90s just to get an application to form a team and join F1, tehy have access to wild shit that breaks those rules that you see in street legal machines that are built to a price and donât have nasa scientist level R&D or the freedom to sell these technologies at a price anyone can realistically afford.
Believe me, I am all for more energy tech not less and if you can make a 2 stroke engine that can win top level open wheel or prototype sports cars or japan superbike, more power to ya and sell a million of them.
But no one has really been able to because its not possible.
FWIW now really going to do some thread derailing, but the future of transportation and energy is literally inside us all. There is a scientist who was the expert in this field whos âcar accidentally flew off the side of a cliff hmmmmmâ and he shows inside an organic cell (plant cell animal cell any living cell) the way the protien moves around, if we are to enlarge it to our physical scale and perception, is equivalent to traveling at light speed on a thimble of corn liquor.
Itâs bad ass I think he called it the molecular motor.
And last thing thank you so much for listening and letting me have my say and not misunderstanding me as not liking anyone on OG or trying to be tough guy wag the finger. My views are the opposite I just desperately want to explain myself in a way that describes how these machines work but would be better if I had a diagram to show the size and speed difference in these different motors.
Drag racing is another example kind of crazy engines but they use same displacement as ford f150 but the fuel is nitromethane which even if its burning there is no flame its a completely different chemical than whats in gasoline, cools more efficiently than octane and detonation can be withstood at crazier higher compression.
The space shuttle engine, kinda more efficient than my rotor tiller 2 stroke engine.
REally I would love for you to hit the manuals and books and learn all about it and if I am wrong show me, but I really donât think I am.
Two-Stroke Motorcycle Drag Racing!
I do have a bitching 4-smoke weed eater though; Honda-powered⌠but I just bought a Shindaiwa 2-stroke power unit and honestly it is way better for the jobâŚ
I think the biggest issue with 2-stroke is that due to porting being such a huge and constant constraint, they can only be efficient under very specific conditions. Marine 2-strokes get jetted for altitude and then run wide-open. Pretty efficient really, considering the power output. Well-tuned they are no worse than a 4-stroke. Well, not by much anyways.
On a modern 4-stroke we can have variable valve timing. To the extent that new Toyota engines have hydraulically/electrically operating valve trains approaching 40% thermal efficiency (increased power stroke and reduced compression) by imementing elements of Atkinson cycle.
None of this is possible with an engine that has absolutely positively fixed signal timing always (with a slight exception of fuel injection for better atomization).
Chainsaws we run wide open - perfect application
Light and powerful. Marine engines. Dirt bikes (for those who know how to ride them and keep them at peak power always)⌠thatâs about it thoughâŚ
WOW! I bet a weaker or more inexperienced person would not be able to stay on even with the wheely bar if they gunned full speed and were not ready for that.
Again I have never ridden one, but in cars sometimes for racing they use shorter than stock gear ratios and closer final drives than came with the car or flywheel made of lighter material so even if power stays the same when you lower the gears, the acceleration speeds up and zero to top speed becomes so fast even in a car it feels like you can break your own neck if you hit the gas to hard just from forward Gâs.
The guys who fly planes I guess take a lot more for longer time but that is a ton of force on the body for a land vehicle but especially motorcycle where you are stradling the seat and I guess griping the grips for dear life hahahaha.
Drag racing I donât get it. So much effort and money and mechanic work for something that even if you win its over in ten seconds, it seems anti climactic. But I guess if you are getting wasted in the stands its cool.
Idk the motorcycles I am sure are the same but the funny cars and top fuel dragsters they have to rebuild the entire engine replace head studs and all each race its that much force ripping everything apart and heat.
Those guys I am sure are young dudes the guys racing in this video. No room for error with a machine like that any bobble or tire problem would be really easy to get paralyzed.
In a car you can have a cage and halon sprayers and lots more survival odds but I am sure the motorcycle racing of any kind is really really fun I wish I knew how.
@Dale I miss my turbo gsx so bad nothing quite like hitting an on ramp at 140
@Tappy I think we might become great friends G
Yea I was on the highway long time ago at night and everyone starts moving to right lane fast and I was like I dont hear sirens and it was a Sazuki Hiyabusa with neon downlighting, I did not see him coming but got out of the way and didnât know he was there until his fucking glowing bike was almost over the horizon and the vortex of his air his bike was cutting sucked my car to over to his lane hahaha. Turboâs usually by eating exhaust make less noise but the doppler effect of his passing me when I heard it it was like being inside a swarm of bees thats moving really fast. Any cop who wants to pull him over even with the 700hp dodges and all they have, not a chance in hell unless they do spike strip and the rider will die from that.
Yeah I used to have a zx2 S/R as well that would dust cops with a whole 170hp lol but nothing compared to taking a big highway on ramp at 140+ mph the only downside with the awd Mitsubishi platform was the center case was never meant for more than 350 horsepower blew up two gsx and a awd first gen talonâŚI really had a turbo mopar problem for years my favorite being a ugly faded blue Plymouth Sundance stick that ugly fuck would eat 5.0 mustangs and shit tuneport cameros lol
Dude whatever some of those ugly old cars are super fun to drive.
This show on speed vision this guy who was champion of the Trans Am Series a few times hosted a show where each episode they featured one car and three segments first they talk about the car and show it driving on street roads but nice ones like southern california canyon drive.
Next part he always had some amazing driver who was retired like Mario Andretti come drive the same car on a racetrack, and their helmets are micâd up to one another and they race each other and comment about the car and handling and what they are trying to do vs the limits of the car / tires whatever.
Was great show and one that I remember the car really shocked me and the drivers loved it and got a lot from it was the Buick Grand National that came from GM with turbo V6 it was 1980s i think like fuel crisis was not that long ago and it looked like a box sedan. I had never seen one. Didnât see it again until one of the fast and furious movies starts with heist of gas tankers on cliff roads of course goes sour and gas tanker fish tails and rolls down the road at Vin Diesel in his Buick Grand Nash (slightly modified haha) and he has his girl in the passenger seat.
He watches the gas tanker bounce and feels the timing and does burnout and his sister is screaming no this wont work dont no no no and when it is close the tanker touches the ground near the car, bounces up just higher than the roof, and Vin Diesel with sister screaming top of lungs drops clutch at 7000 rpm and it connects but so much torque the back tires over steer for super slow motion stylish four wheel drift barely underneath burning gas tanker that of course goes right over them and blows up below haha.
After that I was like shit maybe old man style bodied turbo v6 is cool sleeper cops wont know haha.
And my dad had a similar car, it was the early 90s ford taurus sho he had a few of them. At the time, in Formula one a bottom level team called Arrows had an engine contract with Ford for the engines they were using at the time was before the 3.0L v10 but something big and cool like that 20k redline ho hum. So when sho made their taurus, yamaha had been their partner in F1 for the Arrows engine and they also partnered with SHO to build the sideways moutned V6 and it was not just engine swap the car had better suspension brakes was cool other than clutch. Dad put three cluthces in before 50k miles.
But to look at it was understated looked like the car in the movie Road Trip. But it was cool when the clutch held together. I always remember the intake manifold had the runners in a criss cross design, and the rap group KirssKross was really popular at the time.
Iâm old what do you wantâŚ
I canât argue with that assessment.
My mom wanted a chainsaw asked for long time whateve I got her cool two stroke and she never used it, too lazy to do the fuel mix, now its I want an electric chainsaw this one is too heavy bla bla bla
Hahaha maybe I need to take it for myself and actually use it, winter is coming ffs.
Itâs light to me even full of gas but whatever she is super picky on everything.
