I agree with this. It seems kind of dick (to me, anyway) to just sign up for seeds without even posting,”Interesting grow. Can’t wait for the seeds!” Or something. Shit, man, I get irritated when somebody posts in my grow logs out of nowhere, asking some random question that has nothing to do with anything in the grow log. Or whatever.
Maybe I’m just feeling irritable today.
But yeah, I agree with @nube, seems to me that people should be bringing something to this…
If you’re in this list then I don’t have your address in the OG Co-op file. Please Private Message your shipping address so we can get your seeds to you:
Thank you,
Sebring
Click on my name or avatar & then click -Message-
PM sent… Thank you sir
Sent…ty much
Sent! thank you SO MUCH!!!
@minitiger I guess live and let live. After reflecting more about @khaoohs comments, I’m ambivalent about it. I’d like to encourage the good rather than discourage anything.
Thanks Sebring 
@nube Did you ever decide which pheno’s you were keeping for a selected F2 run? I may have missed it if you stated it already.
Good question. I haven’t decided if I’m doing F2 selects or not. I figure it’s best if I run them all unseeded first before deciding if there’s an F2 select project worth doing, or if the open pollination run was enough. I saved a couple top buds of each pheno to shuck when I was ready to sample the buds and I’ve been pretty impressed by at least two of them, but I’ll withhold final judgment until the sensi run is done.
They all got uppotted into 7gal root pouches last weekend and the 4 girls are about 10 days from hitting flower. I took clones yesterday. Hope they root before flipping. Cooler temps should help that.
Withholding final judgement until you can have a Sensimilla run is a wise move. I remember you saying that there was a clone only pheno of Pura Vida making the rounds in your area, but it wasn’t that great. Can you describe what characteristics that clone only had and what characteristics you are looking for when selecting a keeper? Is it potency? effect? terp profile?
I didn’t have a chance to try the local clone but here’s where we talked about it a couple weeks ago:
Read that and then my reply in the next post. Here’s the link to the Gu of Greenpoint Seeds’ Pura Vida tester thread: https://www.breedbay.org/community/threads/hollywood-pure-kush-x-appalachia.201360338/
My keeper criteria is different than the F2 selects criteria. For keepers, I pick effects and potency over everything, with other criteria as nice to haves but not necessary (within reason). For example, I wouldn’t pick a dr. grinspoon type as a keeper from this cross even if it was the most potent and best effects, just because harvesting 2g of calyxes from 20wks of flowering doesn’t seem like a good tradeoff for HPK x Appy. Lucky for me, I don’t have to make that choice. But I might choose the smallest plant if it had the best potency and effects but no flavor. I don’t have issues with PM or pests so I don’t select for that stuff.
My rationale for pairing m/f cuts of F2 selects would be if one of the outliers shows me something special, like the smallest female has the best flavor and there’s a very similar male, I’d pair them to try to accentuate the expression of that flavor trait in the F2 selects. Maybe I’d get lucky, but the chances of F2 selects working out how you want them to beyond a single trait or two is exceptionally rare. I really don’t think it’s likely for a small time weed chucker to make very good selections in observational breeding. Possible, yes; likely, hell no.
Yeah folks get lucky sometimes, and it’s really important to realize that, YES most anybody these days can mash together two winner plants and get decent genes as a result. That’s why there’s such a market for all the hype strains being mashed and remixed and rehashed ad infinitum. But I don’t think it’s possible to get consistent results of inbred lines from selections of less than hundreds of thousands of plants, and with genetic testing backing up the selections, like how it’s done by Big Ag.
If anybody’s curious about that, check out how they select for special corn varieties to IBL and nail down perfect hybrids. They literally grow hundreds of thousands, if not millions of plants to select from.
If it’s that involved for Big Ag with unlimited resources and access to plants species that are totally homozygous and the best genetic testing in the world, why would it be easier for your favorite breeder who’s only sifting 10 extremely heterozygous plants a round and claiming they created the perfect true-breeding Bubba pre83 clone only bx5 after using their eyes and nose in selecting from 50 plants total during those generations?
Then consider how much you trust those “35th generation IBL Kentucky Skunk” seeds being sold by an IG account at the rock bottom price of $500 for 10 seeds. Or even the “Haribo Headstash Bx2” for $60 a pack being sold by somebody who grows 50 plants per round. Or what about the folks who kiss ass on forums for long enough that they get blessed with a few clone only “elites” and then mash them together? Yes, it’s likely the resulting seed plants and their flowers are good. No, it’s not likely the Bx2 is much like the original clone-only except for 1 or 2 traits. This is one of the big reasons there was that mixup between the Chem 91 JB clone and the Chem 91 Skunk VA clone. Who even knows if they’re closely related? They certainly produce much different kids when you use the same male on them both.
This is why I prefer to just do open pollination preservation runs. I’m no breeder and I don’t have the capacity or the hubris to claim to be breeder. There’s just too many unknowns and can’t knows in small observational breeding that unless you run thousands of plants and have genetic testing, you’re just a random chucker or, as bodhi calls himself, “a genetic magician.” Anybody who claims otherwise is getting too big for their britches. 
Oh, and watch out for those self-styled “breeders” who are glomming onto this idea of genetic preservation by proclaiming they have upcoming preservation projects of old and out of print strains they’ll just so happen to be happy to provide 5pks of to you if you buy 3 of their strains. But of course, they’re “doing it out of the kindness of their hearts,” to “preserve things for the community.” Nah, those folks are just trying to distract while they extract your dollars by co-opting the coop preservation seed model built here for free by the good members of Overgrow.
Damn!!! Well put.
I got pissed off when there was nothing else to read.
This sums the whole thing up perfectly. It is also why I hold the respect I do for MikeJ at PeakseedsBC. I am sure there are others, but he is the only breeder I know of who consistently goes deep working his gear. And it isn’t from small selections. But very large pheno hunts generation after generation for close to 30 years now.
I can recall a time when hermis were nowhere near as prevalent or accepted as they are nowadays. In fact the first company I knew of doing poly hybrids actually got a bad rep because of how common their hermi plants were compared to none from others. ( Willy Jacks seed company )
IMHO this is because of the lack of actual knowledge on selective breeding , along with the time and space to do it , and the fact that most weed seed buyers are just looking for the hottest new names.
Just to put it out there, I don’t claim to know it all and I don’t have all the answers. And before I get some nastygrams from a few of the self-absorbed b/readers who think I’m talking about them specifically, get over yourself Mr. Brokenpromises and Mrs. Butthurt - I’m speaking of the industry generally.
A lot of people are claiming to know a lot more than they actually do, and claiming to be capable of better things than they’re actually capable of. Pumping out a Bx5 that “is genetically 94% of the clone only elite” in two years of breeding experience with none of the intervening steps documented or tested publicly just ain’t possible. The seeds are probably great weed, but they’re not as claimed. And beyond that, I question the value of the whole thing to begin with, given the limitations of breeding with such rudimentary tools, such little time, and such small numbers.
I just have to say, I often just skim through posts of this length, but I read the whole post and it kept me engaged the entire time. I didn’t even realize I read that much until I scrolled back up lol. Very well written and thought out nube!
Thanks @nube
I’ve been a member since the late 90’s. I agree with you. But I’m also guilty, probably this thread, and maybe 1 r 2 more runs. So you would have to take this into consideration. I might not of posted, gave any hearts(I really don’t know) but I did the very few chances I had to log on at least read up a little a cple of times. Also I do post other places, plus I’m just finishing a seed run myself, which I was not successful at. I got only 53 - 55 seeds. I did go back thru the thread, offered them up to the two that put it together, After they politely declined I decided who interacted the most with me and the thread and not one who was just using as a hangout talking about the weekend. I , at my expense mailed out the seeds after chating with the members to see if they even wanted them. One reason I didn’t reply or post or like is I got as busy as @MomOnTheRun and started a post on the 8th, feel asleep half way thru and couldn’t make time or even remember to finish the post until tonight cause I was so busy. Talking start working when I wake and work till I drop busy. I’m sure there will always be that person at all times on all runs and he(r she) shouldn’t be penalized for having to work so hard. Which will be hard to figure out ,work to hard good guy, r drive by seed grabber. It would take a full time moderator to investigate. And then again , so what he drove by, got free seeds and grew r sold r traded them . it really don’t matter cause he will mention og, the coops, the the breeder if by chance he’s really trying to be a breeder of strains… Word of mouth is good free advertisement for breeders. That free seed drive by might just make the difference the breeder needs. I’m no breeder, one day would like to be as close to a breeder as a chunked could get. I wouldn’t care if driveby r regular member got.
Just saying
Edit
Fixed the “spittle” typo.
PM sent @sebring
Thank you very much
No worries @TheBubbleKing. You’re all good and I appreciate the kindness you showed. 
Everybody’s getting seeds if they’re signed up and did all the stuff necessary to get their address on file with the free seed distributors. 
I was mostly musing on how to engage the community and have them engage the coop, not penalties for lack of engagement. The point (for me) is to give out as many quality free seeds of old strains as I can. I think there’s more to come on that in the future.
For what it’s worth, seeds are going out to @Sebring this week. I hope they bring much joy to all involved. 
On another note, we may have to evacuate due to fires. A big one erupted on Saturday and was within 5mi of my home by 3pm that afternoon. This mountain above N. Boulder was on fire when we went out for a walk in the park:
Here’s the whole smoke plume. Looks like clouds but it’s smoke.
About 9000 acres burned and my landlords had to evacuate. Still don’t know if their house burned. Haven’t heard from them in a couple days. Hope they’re alright. Eerie glow at night.
Now a second fire has erupted down Sunshine Canyon west of Boulder, burning up a friends’ house and several dozen others. It’s an enormous tragedy, not just for their loss, but also because of the natural beauty being destroyed. That was our favorite place to hike. Lion’s Lair and Mt. Sanitas.
Turns out this happy lil’ girl knows nothing but goodness and love, and I hope it always stays that way!
Sending positive vibes to you and your community. 
Just saw this thread. Am I too late to sign up? Truly no worries if so. Thank you in advance for any information. Positive vibes…
~nugzz
