That looks dumb good!
What’s it smell like?
4 Likes
Ya thats a good description, gassy skunky leather
5 Likes
Heres the AJSD. Tiny but of stress at h the top from being too close to the hps.
I didnt do a stem/leaf rub cuz I already did the bigmyrm and woukdnt be able to really tell lol
22 Likes
Very nice - looks like a yielder!
3 Likes
I haven’t grown the D myself but I did get to see it up close once. To me it had the lemony sour but also had a disgusting bad breath halitosis smell that I think is what develops into the BO stink in cure. The nug structure was weird, kind of like flakes stacked together into nugs if that makes sense. Could have also been how it was grown.
Though I’ve never grown either the 91skva or the D (@Santa 
- they’re on my xmas list wink wink), from what I’ve seen and heard, the D is waaaaaaay different than the 91skva in every way. Makes you wonder if they’re even related. Same for the 1, 3 and 4 too. Such crazy variation that you usually don’t see if they were mostly s1 seeds (despite the claim of finding and tossing 1 male out of the seeds).
11 Likes
Wow that’s a keeper pheno if I’ve ever seen one. Great bag appeal with the color and frost and you can just see the weight of those buds. It looks like one of those plants that hardly shrinks when it dries…dense
@Craigson15 those last 2 cuts look very similar. Have you noticed any major differences between them?
3 Likes
So I know origin stories are shrouded in mystery and smoke. But are all the chemdog strains supposedly descended from that one bagseed clone that originated on the dead lot?
A separate question- anyone know how the CSI chemdog 91 S1 stacks up? I have a few of those that ive been eyeballing to pop soon.
3 Likes
Haha, well alright, thanks!
Ive got a few different strains w various chems in the crosses. Kicking around the idea of breeding them together to lean them towards the chem side to see if i can get something unique to come out of it. Similar to how I’m thinking about SSDD and a few strains I have that are crossed w it. Not being a breeder tho I have no idea if my thibking is solid…
3 Likes
Thanks to @Craigson15 for the quote. There’s a little bit more to it. As I understand it, the original chem cuts are:
Chem 1 (sativa-ish)
Chem 3 (very fruity and citrusy, regarded by many as the best of the chems, but super rare and hard to dial in. Still held by bodhi and nspecta and one of the admins at Breedbay - mom to the triple HT cup winner Sunshine 3 accidentally renamed Sunshine 4. Also used in bodhi’s Cobra Lips freebie that was available for years)
Chem 4 (biggest yield of the bunch, but not regarded as potent as the 3, the 91skva, or the D. I don’t know anybody who considers it the best cut, but what do I know? Not much. 
)
Chem D (as mentioned in the OP, known for extreme potency and smelling terribly wonderful, body odor, garlic, bad breath. Also pretty unstable itself, but usually good when crossed to stable males.)
Chem 91 Skva (shared with SkunkVA by Chemdog and kept around all these years. Looks like an OG in some ways, very potent, the most potent cut for some, but finicky and throws nanners a lot).
Chem Sis (I don’t know anything about this one)
These are the cuts that came from the original ounces of “Dog bud” that was shipped to Chemdog in the mail by the people who sold him his first sack of it at a dead show in 1991.
Love him or hate him, but Adam Dunn got all of the Chem crew together in one podcast a few years back. Literally all of the folks involved in the original dead show sales, seed popping, cut saving and origins of diesel. I took notes as I listened to the show. Here are my notes:
Pbud starts telling the story, then they call chemdog “G” himself and he tells the whole story, then they call AJ “Asshole” the Sour Diesel guy, and finally they call Swerve.
Forgive the shitty video - the audio is what you need to listen closely to.
Some highlights:
In 1989-1990, Joe Brand, Pbud and the Crested Butte, CO, deadheads were getting something called Dogbud from what they were told was the Cali/Oregon border. Dank, skunky, and indoor.
They called it Dogbud because after you smoked it, it made you roll around on the floor like a dog. They thought it had to have been grown with chemicals because it looked amazing, but also because it smelled and tasted like chemicals. “G” and JB put the two names together to come up with Chemdog. The DAWG name likely came from Brett at Apothecary Seeds when he had bred some beans from the Chem 91 stock.
They sold a pound of it at the Deer Creek Dead show in 1991. Chemdog bought a bag, then came back for a zip and hung out with them at the show, exchanged numbers. Chemdog got in touch with pbud, and bought a couple/few zips in the mail. One of the zips had 13 seeds in it, but they never found any other seeds.
Chemdog sprouted the first two seeds that year - 1 male (discarded - D’oh), Chem 91 Skunk VA. Then he popped a couple more beans, Chem’s Sis came from that 2nd round of popped. In 2000-2001ish, he germed 4 more. Chem D was the keeper from that round of popping. They see only minor variances, so they think these original chem seeds might be “selfed.”
The original Chem 91 Skunk VA is the same cut as the original New York City Diesel (originally called Diesel). In the early 2000s, Joe Brand called Pbud and mentioned the NYCD. People were getting clones from Massachusetts and changing the name in NYC.
The “Sour” name came from Staten Island, they speculate that perhaps it’s a cross of Chem 91 Skunk VA with Mass Super Skunk, or a herm from a separate cut in the same room as the Chem 91 SKVA that ended up being a nice cut.
In 1993, Chemdog met AJ on a deadhead tour bus, and Chem said “check out this Chem 91” and then AJ said “check out this Sour Diesel” and they realized they had the exact same cut.
I ended at https://youtu.be/uCrvpTcEWPY?t=5428 before they spoke to Swerve.
The Chem 91 JB cut is not original. It was held by Joe Brand, and was originally thought to be the Skva cut and even was verified as that cut by Chemdog at one point, but is different. Produces more knobby buds and more colas than the Skva cut. Unsure of where it comes from, but could be a chem91skva s1?)
@newb2.0 the Chem 91 skva s1 from CSI are known for being very very very unstable, as far as I’ve read. Probably better in crosses or trying to get the cut itself.
35 Likes
Thanks for the rundown! Unstable as in I will get a ton of variability when I pop a handful of these, or unstable as in likely to self pollinate?
I know CSI is pretty well regarded, I have no experience w them and havent bothered to try and figure out what they’re known for. Do they do a lot of selfing of elite clones like the chem91, or is this just a one off example?
I got some of the sinshine 4 from @50state when he did the server auction last year. They’re F2s of Bodhis sunshine 4, so is that really the incorrectly named sunshine 3?
I’m super intrigued by all of this, got me thinking about how to set up a new project.
6 Likes
Lol there is both sunshine 4 (chem 4 x ssdd) and sunshine 3(chem 3 x ssdd) by Bodhi. The seeds from 50state are Sunshine 4.
Sunshine 4 won the Michigan Hightimes Cannabis cup a few yrs ago.
Then sometime after, the guy who grew it said he had mislabelled it and it was really sunshine 3.
(I think he even claims he labelled it weong on purpose??)
I donno, honestly to me it sounds like some shmuck stumbled upon a special plant and was so unorganized he really has no idea which of the two it really is.
15 Likes
Holy thats alot to take in. Really good info thanks and keep the descriptions of the smell coming haha i could never put my finger on it but when i think about it the pheno i have is all of those smells above minus the citrus and fruity smell but i hear guava chem has those citrus and fruity notes here its pretty big in the states .
4 Likes
I have not grown it, but from everything I’ve read from a variety of people growing it, the real Chem 91skva cut throws nanners quite a bit and the s1 from it, no matter who makes them, are also regarded as unstable meaning they throw nanners that have viable pollen and will self-pollinate. There’s tons of people saying the Chem91skva s1 don’t have keepers and are unstable.
Not a knock on CSI, and you’re right they are very highly regarded and it’s well-deserved, it’s just the nature of that 91skva cut, apparently. People say the same about the Chem D s1 as well. Looking at their website, CSI sells a ton of feminized seeds created by selfing “elite” and very rare clones, not so much hype cuts but some of those as well.
As for the Sunshine 3 vs. Sunshine 4 debate, it’s the same old weed mythology and shenanigans and bs stories, like cookies or chems or anything else. But when the people who were there or who grow it say it, I tend to pay attention.
And this is no different. I read that the Michigan cannabis community have all agreed the Sunshine 3 cut is the one that was renamed and won the HT cups three times running. I don’t personally know; I’m only relaying what I’ve read or listened to. Apparently all of the people whose flower has won the cups have now agreed that it is the Sunshine #3 cut. Here’s the podcast where MidnightRoots, who won one of those cups for the “sunshine 4” and another with a cross with it called “sunshine kush,” talks about it (2nd half of the video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOSIqUPa5cc
14 Likes
This is the cut they said most resembled the original dog bud also.
I remember listening to the AD podcast when it first came out and registered to it 6minths ago. Them saying that about the 4 is the reason I would love to try it but the closest I’ve come is seeds which we all know will be different.
I also have ISPs Chem D bx3 currently in flower. My goal is to cross that with the best 4 female I can find and then hit the best of those Fems with an 88 G13HP male and see what I can come up with.
13 Likes
@nube I very much appreciate your no nonsense wealth of knowledge.
All this about CSI’s Chem 91 makes me want to try it and see how unstable it really is. At the very least if it throws pollen sacks, I’ll have another seed strain to cross off the list and determine I wont need to go back into it. Since ive started back up a year ago, I feel ive accumulated enough flower now that if i lose a run or 2 to unstable genetics, I at least have enough meds to carry me through to another successful run.
12 Likes
This doesn’t add up. Doesn’t seem to me like they were selfed. Why would they think this, when they found a male in the original seeds?
14 Likes
I agree. And, though they say there’s not much variation between all the cuts from those original 13 seeds, I think the rest of us would disagree having seen pics and read smoke reports of most of them. But I won’t claim to know more than they do - they’re the ones who found and grow those cuts, not me. 
As with any bagseed from a commercial black market grow, it could be males, it could be herms, it could be anything. And since Chemdog was young and inexperienced with growing weed back when he found the “male,” perhaps it was just a herm or a plant that threw nanners and was misidentified?
The whole thing is worth listening to, though, cuz it’s all the original chem crew laying out the whole story, no bs, no he said she said.
19 Likes
I would say given the % of male to female found and that there isn’t any real record of the male it would point to the seeding occurring because of some sort of viable male flower formed on a “typically” female plant.
My .02 - I don’t believe there ever was a male. I don’t really care either way though, so if it’s true that’s great as well.
From a strictly m/f ratio perspective it appears to be XX pollen.
My .02 only!
8 Likes
And Bodhi likes the chem 3 best lol. Its all personal preference
7 Likes